Takeda orderd directly from Shosui

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wphill

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Well, I got off the fence and made the order. Mentioning this in case others have already done so or might do so.
It seems to be a fact that the newer grinds lack certain elements... that WOW factor.
I've never had one of his knives in hand so I'm mostly conjuring up in my head the specifics without getting too technical.
I've asked for an s grind, flexible but sturdy, tall bevel, thin behind the edge, high blade road, all carbon, beautiful KU, Santoku like profile, 60mm tall, 210-220 mm long.
Shosui has been very prompt in his communication. Best I can say is that he is ok with my request. Word from others is that he wants to please.
I didnt' say anything about the handle..but here's one that I saw when googling.
IMG_1389.JPG

His site sells natural stones....curious if there is one in the 100usd range as a finishing stone. Nakayama Koppa
　　(Kyoei)
nakayama.jpg
 
Please let us know how it goes when it arrives! With lots of peekshures.
 
I'm going to guess...delivery will be in two months..which is the soonest likely.
I say this because Shosui has been reliably prompt and friendly.
Let me reiterate...he sells natural stones...might have more than just what is on the website.
Need not be pricey IF I can get the right match for the Takeda. Suggestions welcome. Not a must.
Stroking, I mean stropping, a good beveled steel as a way to end a prep session...I find addicting.
Yes, I am excited. Did my due diligence knowing the risk involved.
 
Let me know how this turns out. I want a takeda NAS 300mm/65mm for my collection but dont want to sell out $500+ on a lemon. The guy makes a seriously attractive knife with an interesting grind / profile
 
Godslayer said:
Let me know how this turns out. I want a takeda NAS 300mm/65mm for my collection but dont want to sell out $500+ on a lemon. The guy makes a seriously attractive knife with an interesting grind / profile
Click to expand...

I'll also let you know how mine is when it comes back from JKI, you can see it in its current state shown (it's the one on the left in this link):
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ing-and-refinishing-we-do?p=418142#post418142

Hard to believe to other one originally had even smaller bevels than mine. I'm looking forward to see what Jon is able to do to it.
 
Jon is the last stop to make the customer happy, but I think even Jon might agree that we just as well
get something that at least is not more than the usual thinning behind the edge without having to thin the knife, move the road blade,
and still do justice to the underlying or intended geometry.

In the meantime, I am hopeful and take it at face value that Shosui wants us happy as well. Love that choil shot of the S grind.
I'm in. Leap of faith.
 
The ultimate Takeda grind.
Think sexual.
しなやかな
Shinayakana
 
Wonder if that friendly exchange between Takeda and Maksim and some other elements of the community is still floating around online.
 
xoomg...while trying to do some due diligence prior to a direct order, I did see where I think it was a "magnus"?....are you thinking of the individual who provided a drawing,
exacting specs in mm, and asked for two flat spots? If so, he recently had it in classified at another website. And, going back in the archives ...around 2014...there seemed
to be be a history of nice interchanges but the outcomes were inconsistent. In all fairness to Shosui, we really don't know the quality of communication attempted by
the buyer. My intent is to offer general guidelines and trust him enough to capture what gave his knife such a wow factor prior to sometime around 20010. I do remember
that you made a post that others were being too harsh while yet understanding one's disappointment.

As an aisde, I have read that only 20% of those who purchase j-knives sharpen themselves. If that's the case, I can understand how Shosui and other blacksmiths
went to a more "roboust" grind. All that is another story.

I'm taking it at face value that Shosui wants to please and my intent is to be a "good customer", by which I mean who reasonably explains what he wants.
After looking at various choil shots, and I never know for sure which are OOTB and which are post sharpening, the best of the lot that I can
only imagine since I have never held a Takeda, is that it be:
flexible but sturdy,
thin behind the edge,
s grind and noticeably so,
tall bevel
shoulder at the blade road tapered vs "hippy"

In sum, I my attempt to characterize some awesome choil shots as "svelte" and hence the japanese translation posted above.

Here are a few shots...which one would be your favorite?
The first is from a thinning by Jon Broida.The others I don't have a source note.

13064665_10153800770618860_5322830473268790859_o.jpg


takeda%2Bs%2Bgrind.jpeg


TakedaProfileShots006.jpg


Below look less desirable...too much shoulder or shoulder too low..I think...'cause maybe, to be one own's devil adovate, maybe one should be careful to not ask for a grind that is going to be too thin and too brittle.

IMG_1391.JPG

IMG_1393.JPG


Never known there to be an opition for a handle upgrade, nor do I know how enthusiasts feel about the stock handle. Though, I have read that epoxy is used which possibly makes handle removal more difficult.
This handle looks awfully nice to me, as well as the whole blade face.
IMG_1389.JPG
 
Second pictur is a direct order NAS gyuto from cclin. Once Jon is done with mine I'll update the thread for your info. He did say that the OOTB on mine was better than the one on the first picture (mine is the one on the left in the original thread).

You'd probably be best to talk to a custom handle maker if you want an upgrade. I found the stock handle on my 270 NAS gyuto too small. I think I wrote down the original specs prior to removing (there is epoxy, so destructive removal was required) so if I can find them I'll post
 
wphill said:
xoomg...while trying to do some due diligence prior to a direct order, I did see where I think it was a "magnus"?....are you thinking of the individual who provided a drawing,
exacting specs in mm, and asked for two flat spots? If so, he recently had it in classified at another website. And, going back in the archives ...around 2014...there seemed
to be be a history of nice interchanges but the outcomes were inconsistent. In all fairness to Shosui, we really don't know the quality of communication attempted by
the buyer. My intent is to offer general guidelines and trust him enough to capture what gave his knife such a wow factor prior to sometime around 20010. I do remember
that you made a post that others were being too harsh while yet understanding one's disappointment.
Click to expand...
Nah, I was referring to a simian feces fight on facebook between JNS's Maksim, a bunch of community nerds and groupies, and Mr. Takeda. Sadly it is no longer at the link I had before...would be funny if someone preserved it.
 
I think he's going to send you a standard ground knife...my understanding is that he believes his current grind to be what people want (and he believes it to be a very good grind)...I'd be very surprised if you can get what you think you want...also if you've not cut with any of these, how exactly do you know what you want? FWIW, best bet is likely what Tanner did but that basically adds a bunch of cash to the bottom line...almost forgot the rehandle, so guessing T's knife has $5-600 in it minimum.

Not to be negative, but this is why I don't want another Takeda.:)
 
i think people forget that there is no single ideal grind... they all have pros and cons. Not everyone will be ok with the super thin ground ones... they move through food well, but are brittle and require great finesse in use. The thicker ones have much better toughness and food release. Its important to be introspective and take a good look at where your skills lie (in use, sharpening, maintenance, etc.), and also what is important to you in terms of knife performance. You may want the thinnest grind, but may not be capable of using it without chipping it. You may want better food release, but get frustrated when it wedges. You may want it to move through food more easily, but be frustrated with foods stick to the sides. There's always a tradeoff, and its important to be smart about taking time to understand the limits of your abilities relative to what you want.
 
All good points. Is there a middle ground? Might be nice to have have a continuum to choose from. No surprises.
Just spent a prep session mincing a weekly five plus pounds of veg produce. And, not a clue as to how to grade my skills. Maintenance is very good. That I am confident about? Need to be in an intermediate to advanced class to know about level of knife application. Most classes here are very basic. The local culinary school might be a resource. Food for thought, but I don't want to give up on the notion that Shosui wants to please.
 
it really depends on each person... i probably wouldnt go as thin as i did for everyone, unless i knew a bit more about their abilities and experience using and sharpening other knives though.
 
JBroida said:
it really depends on each person... i probably wouldnt go as thin as i did for everyone, unless i knew a bit more about their abilities and experience using and sharpening other knives though.
Click to expand...

Well said Jon , I have to mention that thinning job looked very good , I believe you spent more time grinding that knife compared to initial grind at the factory
 
JBroida said:
it really depends on each person... i probably wouldnt go as thin as i did for everyone, unless i knew a bit more about their abilities and experience using and sharpening other knives though.
Click to expand...

I'm comfortable with something thin :angel2:

Mine was still on the OOTB edge when I sent it and microchipping was caused mostly by me trying to scrape off the decarburization bits with a screw that slipped, also wanted to see if I could chip it with a fingernail
 
I would definitely choose the last in the series of choil shots ... most likely to have the cut, split and release behaviour that I am exactly considering getting a Takeda at some point in time. And thinner than the one above it seems :) If it comes with the caution of "use another knife to hack or to drop on concrete floors", then that is exactly what I would do.
 
tjangula said:
You'd probably be best to talk to a custom handle maker if you want an upgrade. I found the stock handle on my 270 NAS gyuto too small. I think I wrote down the original specs prior to removing (there is epoxy, so destructive removal was required) so if I can find them I'll post
Click to expand...
Okay… so on my 270 NAS gyuto the handle was 18.2x23.8 @ferrule; 18.4x24.7 @end; 133mm long
By comparison, the size I like for a gyuto in the 240-270 range is 20x25 @ferrule; 23x28 @end; 145mm long
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
I would definitely choose the last in the series of choil shots ... most likely to have the cut, split and release behaviour that I am exactly considering getting a Takeda at some point in time. And thinner than the one above it seems :) If it comes with the caution of "use another knife to hack or to drop on concrete floors", then that is exactly what I would do.[/QUOTE

Well explained. I thought about your choice vs the thinner ones.


Oh, how I wish that could use one of each...such as that last one in the series or another much thinner and higher bevel.
What I did not consider,until Jon shared his seasoned thoughts, is that a thinner blade means a less effective food release action.
By this, I assume that the KU finish is not going to be as low on the blade and it's the KU finish that releases food.

I will get what I get, and I'm still cautiously optimistic that I will receive a graceful looking grind with elongated
shoulders and reasonably tall bevel thin behind the edge. The more I think about it, which is restricted
to an abstaction, crazy thin is not as important. In fact, could be something that aligns with the adage,
"be careful what you wish for."
Click to expand...
 
JBroida said:
nah... the food sticking is a function of cross-sectional geometry... not kurouchi
Click to expand...
I need a tutorial.:(
Cross sectional geometry....meaning the convex shoulder, particularly on the right side of the blade for a rightie, that will push food away instead of letting it ride up?
When it comes to wet produce, like cucumbers or almost any veggie when minced, won't the KU reduce sticking. Though, I've kind of accepted that sticksion is a reality that I am not going to avoid.
 
JBroida said:
nah... the food sticking is a function of cross-sectional geometry... not kurouchi
Click to expand...

But John, what about grantons?

Surely the problem is a lack of grantons? :justkidding:
 
I had a Takeda with grantons, it also had an extra kanji inscription. This was the messed up one I was referring to earlier (in this or another thread). I'll see if I can find the pic and upload hi-res with photobucket so someone who can read can translate the extra kanji.

EDIT

Here's a picture:
9E017A58-91D8-4593-86C0-CE5B01337A90_zpsotqitwjf.jpg
 
Last edited:
tjangula said:
I had a Takeda with grantons, it also had an extra kanji inscription. This was the messed up one I was referring to earlier (in this or another thread). I'll see if I can find the pic and upload hi-res with photobucket so someone who can read can translate the extra kanji.

EDIT

Here's a picture:
9E017A58-91D8-4593-86C0-CE5B01337A90_zpsotqitwjf.jpg
Click to expand...

I'd forgotten how ugly that sucker was. Now I'll never forget...
 
I might have odd technique, but thin (spine AND back of edge thin) yet wedge and stick-proof geometries, IMHO, really are an advantage once you are doing fine-scale work that requires a bridge hold, or even guiding the blade between two fingers, on the ingredient.
 
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