TF or Watanabe?

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The wa handled Maboroshi at Bernal have much better fit and finish than the ones I saw at the TF shop in Tokyo.
I thought they looked good.
Josh just opened a 2nd store in Oakland so they will have more inventory on hand...
 
labor of love said:
Surprisingly enough the ho wood handle on mine is actually very nice. Very smooth. The installation is crap though.
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That's a good sign. If the handle's properly installed, it means the blade's wonky.
For Mechanics: Fast. Correct. Cheap. Choose two.
For TFs: Good handle. Good blade. Choose one.
 
labor of love said:
Mine is lighter than I thought it would be. It’s somrwhere between 190-200 grams, 53mm x 244mm. I was expecting to put in thinning work ootb but surprisingly I like how it cuts-a lot. Infact I’ll likely wait as long as I can for thinning. F&F is on par with a metal master Tanaka. whatever high/low spots that hide underneath the finish don’t effect performance. Food release is very good. I’m still in my honeymoon phase so I really want to hold off until I can test it more but so far I’ve used it for 5 shifts at work and I like it a helluva lot.
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That sounds like a decent size, once the heel goes sub 50 I find that a 240 gyuto starts feeling a little on the small side. I've bought tanaka from metal master in the past and didnt have a problem with the fit and finish. It was the first knife I ever thinned out.
 
Bicycle components: cheap, light, strong...pick two.

The TF handles at Bernal looked fine, as good as the ones on their Wakui knives
I thought Bernal might install the handles, but the knives come like that from TF.
 
masibu said:
That sounds like a decent size, once the heel goes sub 50 I find that a 240 gyuto starts feeling a little on the small side. I've bought tanaka from metal master in the past and didnt have a problem with the fit and finish. It was the first knife I ever thinned out.
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It really is the perfect blade shape and measurements/weight for me. I mean, I have lighter thinner stuff also and heavier stuff too. But this TF is a good all arounder.
I would say that my handle is slightly nicer than my wakui from bernal but at this point we’re realky splitting hairs. I guess I expected the worst from TF in every way except heat treat and I’ve been pleasantly surprised that in my instance everything worked out.
 
labor of love said:
It really is the perfect blade shape and measurements/weight for me. I mean, I have lighter thinner stuff also and heavier stuff too. But this TF is a good all arounder.
I would say that my handle is slightly nicer than my wakui from bernal but at this point we’re realky splitting hairs. I guess I expected the worst from TF in every way except heat treat and I’ve been pleasantly surprised that in my instance everything worked out.
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We seem to have similar taste, ive been eyeing of the wakui for a few months now. I actually ordered it and cancelled it a few weeks ago. It looks to be a decent all rounder similar to my old itinomonn carbon. My next higher end purchase will be either a wakui or tf nashiji as I no longer have a white gyuto. A misono gyuto is coming my way to fill the unclad carbon void in my life until then. I've been using stainless for a while now, carbon steel feels like I'm cheating when on the stones in comparison. The difference is night and day.
 
Itsalright said:
I thought nashiji line didn't have finger rest option
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Teruyasu Fujiwara's website does say that the finger rest is not an option for the nashiji range. However when I ordered my nashiji nakiri, I requested it stating something like "if at all possible". It came with the finger rest just like @ared715's knives. It's really great in use on the shorter 165mm nakiri.
 
masibu said:
We seem to have similar taste, ive been eyeing of the wakui for a few months now. I actually ordered it and cancelled it a few weeks ago. It looks to be a decent all rounder similar to my old itinomonn carbon. My next higher end purchase will be either a wakui or tf nashiji as I no longer have a white gyuto. A misono gyuto is coming my way to fill the unclad carbon void in my life until then. I've been using stainless for a while now, carbon steel feels like I'm cheating when on the stones in comparison. The difference is night and day.
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It might be hard to find a 50mm tall wakui. I reached out to epic edge once about it and they weren’t too interested in helping me with it but you might have better luck than I did. I dunno, I just received this TF. Let’s how I feel about it in a month.
 
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There are a few of us out there. 4x winner here. All purchased direct
 
I feel ike I’ve won the lottery with my Denka as well. The edge has been chippy, as promised, but my god is it sharp. The edge just holds and holds where it hasn’t chipped. I’m with Labor, that I’m happy with the geometry behind the edge, and I’m reluctant to make any alterations. Not magical food release, but really quite good. One small gripe is that there isn’t a great flat spot at the heel. I’ll be agressively flattening for the first couple sharpenings with the hopes of reducing the belly slightly.

Did I meantion it’s so sharp it’ll cut you for looking at it the wrong way? It’s like my Asai aogami super - that thing nearly took my finger off washing it. I looked at the stove for a split second, and when I looked back the sink was red and I hadn’t felt anything. I’m worried the Denka is going to finish the job.

Honestly though I am very happy I spent time selecting one. I think I’d have worried about the flat / low spot in the grind on the other one I looked at.

I will also say the width of the spine was probably 0.5-0.8mm different between the two. Probably a 20-40g weight difference as well. Really wild.
 
If your edge is chippy I would imagine it needs a full sharpening. If ht is worthy of all the bragging done you shouldn't have a chippy knife.
 
chinacats said:
If your edge is chippy I would imagine it needs a full sharpening. If ht is worthy of all the bragging done you shouldn't have a chippy knife.
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Yes a few mins on the stones will cure that OOTB tendency to micro chip.
 
Yeah I’ve gotten micro chipping OOTB on all three of my Nashiji knives from him(210,195,Nakiri).... like Chinacats says, a full progression will most likely solve this issue as it did for me....
 
Cool, I'm glad to hear this is still the norm. I expected it, so I'm not put off.

I liken this to the Campy/Shimano bike parts discussion. Campy feels clunky at first, but wears in. Shimano feels great OOTB, but wears out.

Am I the only bike nerd here?
 
Damn, I was all set on the Watanabe initially but now I’m really tempted by the TF.

But statistically speaking, how likely is it to get a dud that would make the knife unusable. Not talking about stuff like unrounded spine and choil or off balance but things like overgrinds, recurves and bent blades?
 
lemeneid said:
Damn, I was all set on the Watanabe initially but now I’m really tempted by the TF.

But statistically speaking, how likely is it to get a dud that would make the knife unusable. Not talking about stuff like unrounded spine and choil or off balance but things like overgrinds, recurves and bent blades?
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If you decide to order direct, talk/email Gaku. He's quite fluent with English. Explain exactly what you're looking for and the desired specs. For me weight was of prime importance as was a nicely defined exposure of the core (hate when the cladding extends into the edge). I didn't want a heavyweight. Have him select a few examples, send you pics including choil and check for obvious overgrinds. I usually got 4 or 5 possible contenders for each knife type I wanted. Get him to measure heel height, weight and edge length. Gaku is only too happy to assist and i've found him to be honest and reliable. I even had Fujiwara-san reprofile and thin my 210 Denka gyuto. Not many manufacturers will go to those lengths to accommodate the customer.
By doing your homework and due diligence you'll minimize the chance of disappointment.
 
If you're going to be in Japan, why not visit both...and maybe a few others?
 
If you have some time to kill why not get the TF 'experience'. If you call ahead and they have time they are happy to let you get your hands dirty in the forge area. That should be very informative and fun.
 
captaincaed said:
...I liken this to the Campy/Shimano bike parts discussion. Campy feels clunky at first, but wears in. Shimano feels great OOTB, but wears out...
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I like the way you put that and this is how I see Wats as well (assuming that is what you meant). A true, bloody workhorse with no end. A bit clunky, but damn if she doesn't do the job perfectly. Love it!
 
lemeneid said:
Damn, I was all set on the Watanabe initially but now I’m really tempted by the TF.

But statistically speaking, how likely is it to get a dud that would make the knife unusable. Not talking about stuff like unrounded spine and choil or off balance but things like overgrinds, recurves and bent blades?
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Don’t pay any mind to me. I was just as excited the first time I used a watanabe gyuto. It blew me away and felt like nothing else I had used up to that point.
If you’re a jknife enthusiast I’d recommend trying all the classics at some point. KS, takeda, watanabe, TF...etc etc...
 
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