Time for my first gyuto!

[Pirendeus]

I've looked through previous knive advice requests, but couldn't find a previous thread that matched my crieria, so here we go....

LOCATION
U.S.

KNIFE TYPE
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Either

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240-270

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Probably $300, but less expensive would be nice, too.


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing/dicing vegetables, slicing meats, some mincing of herbs

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Global Sai 7" Santoku

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? Mostly push-cut, some rocking

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Edge retention, ease of sharpening, less wedging, better food release. Although unique knives are nice, looks aren't overly important---I need a knife that can cut, not just look pretty.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) End-grain.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) I'm trying to learn.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) I already have sufficient supplies.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I plan to become a better sharpener through practice, so I don't think my current lack of skills should really affect my options.
I'm reading through pages and pages of old forum posts, trying to learn quickly...I've recently purchased a cheap cleaver and a sabatier nogent, which I plan to use for problematic dense subects. Therefore, this gyuto can be a little bit more delicate, although I don't want to have to baby it. Edge retention and ability to attain a good edge are probably the most important qualities for me.

 

[Godslayer]

If you can swing another $18 takamura hsps gyuto would be an amazing all around gyuto, r2 powdered steel, nice saya, very well made and respected. Tanaka b#2 is very nice. James sells a version with upgraded handle, its a bulky workhorse. Sukenari makes some ginsanko blades also worth looking at, kurosaki as from James is also amazing, his shimo line is better but you need to toss forced patina on it or itll rust on you. I think with your budget you could also afford a damascus sukenari in ginsanko if that interests you, no différence in performance but man does it look pretty.

 

[DanHumphrey]

Exactly what he ^ said. I have James's upgraded Tanaka B2 and it's amazing at plowing through food. Wide enough at the spine for decent release; tall enough that it's thin behind the edge and cuts really well. The OOTB edge is still shaving-sharp on mine after a few months, though I don't use it nearly as heavily as some people here. It was a great deal even with the ebony handle; the cheaper bubinga handle would have been crazy for the price.

 

[Benuser]

Get a carbon steel gyuto to learn sharpening. Misono Swedish or Fujiwara FKH.

 

[Pirendeus]

Get a carbon steel gyuto to learn sharpening. Misono Swedish or Fujiwara FKH.

Well, I plan to practice on my carbon nogent and my global sais... Right now I'm looking to purchase something that won't be a practice toy. Unless you're suggesting that a misono or Fujiwara are the best for my other requirements.

 

[Benuser]

Both carbons sharpen very easily, but aren't known for their exceptional edge retention, which is hardly a problem as they sharpen so easily...
The Globals -- both regular and SAI -- are quite hard to get deburred and have a poor edge retention. PM steels are harder to sharpen. Edge retention should be OK, though.
Both the Misono and Fujiwara are strongly asymmetric which helps with food release.

 

[Benuser]

The Misono has a very fine grain and will benefit from a high polish. Fit and finish are at an exceptional level. The Fujiwara is made from a coarser grained steel, it takes a pleasantly aggressive edge. F&F are very good at its price point.

 

[richard]

Depends on the PM steel...ones like R2/SG2, SRS15 are not that hard to sharpen IMHO. Edge retention are quite good, not just OK

 

[Pirendeus]

Thanks for the help so far. Y'all've made my workday pass much faster and more enjoyably...although I'm not sure my boss will appreciate the lowered productivity ;-)

If you can swing another $18 takamura hsps gyuto would be an amazing all around gyuto, r2 powdered steel, nice saya, very well made and respected. Tanaka b#2 is very nice. James sells a version with upgraded handle, its a bulky workhorse. Sukenari makes some ginsanko blades also worth looking at, kurosaki as from James is also amazing, his shimo line is better but you need to toss forced patina on it or itll rust on you. I think with your budget you could also afford a damascus sukenari in ginsanko if that interests you, no différence in performance but man does it look pretty.

The re-handled Tanaka from KnS looks nice, but it seems its completely out of stock there.
Can you tell me more about how the powdered steel specifically makes the Takamura different from the other knives? Well, really, can you differentiate all the knives you've suggested a bit more? Saying 'Oh, this knife is great' and 'that knife is awesome' doesn't help me much because i dont have any preexisting knowledge of comparison.

Get a carbon steel gyuto to learn sharpening. Misono Swedish or Fujiwara FKH. The Misono has a very fine grain and will benefit from a high polish. Fit and finish are at an exceptional level. The Fujiwara is made from a coarser grained steel, it takes a pleasantly aggressive edge. F&F are very good at its price point. Both carbons sharpen very easily, but aren't known for their exceptional edge retention, which is hardly a problem as they sharpen so easily...Both the Misono and Fujiwara are strongly asymmetric which helps with food release.

But the Fujiwara is an entry-level knife...you don't think any other knives under $300 (other than the Misono) meet my criteria and offer better performance? As for the Misono, maybe I am mistaken...they're more mass produced, right? The reviews I've seen of them are very good, but if given the choice, I'd prefer something with a bit more character. Does that make sense? Or maybe lead you to offer a different suggestion?

 

[Godslayer]

Takamura uses r2 powdered steel hardened to around 62-63 hrc, its a middle weight blade. The steel stays sharp and maintains an edge for a long long time.As a home user with 30 minutes use a day i guess youd have to touch it up quarterly maybe even semi annually. At work my uchigumo(damascus variant) i only touch up every 6-8 weeks. Its seen the stones twice. The tanaka b#2 is a big mofo 3.6mm at thé spine and a workhorse with an agressively thin edge. James polishes and rounds the spine and choil and adds a new custom handle(email him about his next batch. They are arguably the best blade sub $200 usd on thé planet and if you like a bulkier blade would be your cup of tea. The steal is b#2 aogami #2 its a basic carbon steel that is marginally less réactive than white steel. The blade edge will last quite a while just not as long as the r2 steel mentioned prior but will sharpen up quickly. I can resurrect a b#2 blade thats dull as crap in 10-15 minutes, thats how long i spend touching up my takamura. Ginsanko is a stainless steel that sharpens beautifully and acts like carbon steel on thé stones(im 90% sure its technically semi stainless but thé cromium content is so high its basically stainless) my mom has a tanaka 240mm ginsanko from james and its had 0 rust issue, no patina devlopment either. The damascus version is just prettier with a nickle damascus (outer layer) and ginsanko core. These blades are all san mai which means the hard steal is sandwiched between softer steel which acts as a shock absorber. The shimo is a damascus line made of white #2 and a soft damascus coat with a cool x shaped pattern. Its super réactive but once you patina it is managable. Its thinner behind thé edge than any other knife Ive mentioned and white #2 is basically a more reative b#2 variant that i believe is older and lacks a few additional alloys, on thé stones i cant tell the différence maybe w#2 is more glass like but that could be placebo. All these knives are wa handled minus the takamura. The sukenari is magnolia and black horn, shimo is magnolia and black pakka the tanaka is whatever James wants. The bubginda(mispelt probably) is his prettiest inexpensive wood. Walnut isnt bad. The takamura is pure black pakkawood.

 

[kevpenbanc]

This 240 nashiji is a very good knife for the money. I have both one of these and the tanaka Blue 2, and to be honest I prefer the nashiji, it's one of my favourites.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/


I also have this R2 knife. Better steel and better cutter, taller blade but thinner, can't remember off hand, but probably similar to the nashiji in weight.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-240mm-by-shiro-kamo/

These are probably the top 2 recommendations I could make.
Really good value for money, really good knives, period.

The shiro Kamo will have better edge retention, and R2, in my experience, gets stinky sharp.
I'd recommend a Takamura R2 also, but not many of those in 240.

There are plenty of other recommendations from the states, but I actually own the above knives myself.

Have fun
kev

 

[DanHumphrey]

Like I said, ask James when he will (or can) make another Tanaka Blue2 with a custom handle. The problem I have with mine is that it's so good it makes it hard for me to justify getting anything else...

 

[Benuser]

You may contact Dan Prendergast. Liked the carbon he sent in the EU passaround.

 

[foody518]

The Misono dragon looks pretty darn cool in-hand, tbh.
Have you looked at the Itinomonn gyutos?

 

[Pirendeus]

Have you looked at the Itinomonn gyutos?

I haven't yet, no. How does it compare to the other knives that have been suggested?

 

[Pirendeus]

How would a Watanabe compare to Tanaka?

 

[Jaspernowhere]

Favorably, nice thickness at the spine but thins out quickly. My watanabe blows the only tanaka I've used out of the water.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

The Takamura HSPS Pro might be different, but the red Takamura R2, as some here could be (mis?)read recommending) is more of a specialty tool - very thin and sharp, but delicate (forcefully mince with it and your touchup will be NOW) and needs frequent care - more weekly than quarterly touchup when using it as a main board knife everyday. One could probably make it more robust by changing the factory/design angle of 9-10 dps to the usual 12 dps, but that sounds like a waste of sharpness PS, I found one problem with 9-10dps is that while you learn constant angle when sharpening over time, here symmetry is also crucial - there is no visual guide like the shinogi line on a kataba knife, and it is easy to misjudge right vs left angle since the perspective is different. Ended up with 10vs7 dps once, that works but is h... delicate.

 

[Pirendeus]

I see...its probably not for me, then, as I put a bit more value on edge retention.

Anyone else able to compare Tanaka to Watanabe?

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Yep, just wanted to make sure the OP understood black vs red handled Tak

...

Carbon Nogent... practice knife? Rly?

...

I find the (red) R2 less annoying to sharpen than an average VG10 or even 4116-ish (why is your average mall knife usually made of one of these?)

 

[cyp450]

For home use I recommend a Takeda 210mm (actual size can vary) gyuto if you're mainly working with soft veggies, and the Toyama 240mm gyuto for an excellent all-purpose knife.

 

[lapointeus]

Get a carbon steel gyuto to learn sharpening. Misono Swedish or Fujiwara FKH.

This guy knows. The Misono Dragon is such a good learning knife. I can make it super sharp in a couple minutes and it is very affordable. The fandf is very nice.

 

[DanHumphrey]

This 240 nashiji is a very good knife for the money. I have both one of these and the tanaka Blue 2, and to be honest I prefer the nashiji, it's one of my favourites.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/


I also have this R2 knife. Better steel and better cutter, taller blade but thinner, can't remember off hand, but probably similar to the nashiji in weight.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-240mm-by-shiro-kamo/

These are probably the top 2 recommendations I could make.
Really good value for money, really good knives, period.

The shiro Kamo will have better edge retention, and R2, in my experience, gets stinky sharp.
I'd recommend a Takamura R2 also, but not many of those in 240.

There are plenty of other recommendations from the states, but I actually own the above knives myself.

Have fun
kev

That's because the more-common red-handled version maxes out at 210 (probably because the blade is too effing thin to go longer). The black-handled pro version goes to 240, but is only available (that I know of) from MTCKitchen and isn't nearly the screaming deal that the red-handled ones are.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

That's because the more-common red-handled version maxes out at 210 (probably because the blade is too effing thin to go longer). The black-handled pro version goes to 240, but is only available (that I know of) from MTCKitchen and isn't nearly the screaming deal that the red-handled ones are.

The HSPS Pro / Blazen actually goes to 300, but you don't see those anywhere. I got the 240 gyuto, 130 petty, and 270 Suji from. MTC kitchen; the only other place I've seen is chefs armoury in Oz

 

[DanHumphrey]

Well, ok yes I didn't mean that it stopped at 240, but that it did extend that high (unlike the regular). Good to clarify, though.

And personally, I don't pay much attention to anything >240 for what I do, so I didn't know exactly how high they went.

 

[richard]

The HSPS Pro / Blazen actually goes to 300, but you don't see those anywhere. I got the 240 gyuto, 130 petty, and 270 Suji from. MTC kitchen; the only other place I've seen is chefs armoury in Oz

Not Takamura-made, but you can find the Ryusen Blazen up to 300 mm gyutos at Epicurean Edge. I'm not as big a fan of the 270 and 300 mm sizes, they are quite heavy (and also more blade forward). From the 240 mm to the 270 mm, the weight jumps from ~8.3 oz to 10.8 oz.

 

[kevpenbanc]

That's because the more-common red-handled version maxes out at 210 (probably because the blade is too effing thin to go longer). The black-handled pro version goes to 240, but is only available (that I know of) from MTCKitchen and isn't nearly the screaming deal that the red-handled ones are.

Never got to play with the red handled version.
I have come close to buying one a couple of times, maybe one day.

There is a place here in Sydney that stocks the 240 black handle, lists rather as it is rarely in stock.
Think it costs aud800-900 at the moment, for that money I can get a custom from a number of aussie makers, and I'm desperately short of space on my mag racks.

 

[DanHumphrey]

Never got to play with the red handled version.
I have come close to buying one a couple of times, maybe one day.

There is a place here in Sydney that stocks the 240 black handle, lists rather as it is rarely in stock.
Think it costs aud800-900 at the moment, for that money I can get a custom from a number of aussie makers, and I'm desperately short of space on my mag racks.

Wow, yeah, don't do that. MTCKitchen has it for $318 USD, which means the place in Sydney is charging double, even after accounting for the currency. Even then, the red-handle line makes more "sense" to me as light, scary-thin, compact knives at a really good price - I'm thinking of getting the gyuto/petty combo from Chubo as a housewarming gift for my mother, who has the "big knife fear" (likes to use a 3" paring knife to fully prep even 4" onions...). Hopefully, the light weight and small handles will help her be more comfortable.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Never got to play with the red handled version.
I have come close to buying one a couple of times, maybe one day.

There is a place here in Sydney that stocks the 240 black handle, lists rather as it is rarely in stock.
Think it costs aud800-900 at the moment, for that money I can get a custom from a number of aussie makers, and I'm desperately short of space on my mag racks.

Wow, yeah, don't do that. MTCKitchen has it for $318 USD, which means the place in Sydney is charging double, even after accounting for the currency. Even then, the red-handle line makes more "sense" to me as light, scary-thin, compact knives at a really good price - I'm thinking of getting the gyuto/petty combo from Chubo as a housewarming gift for my mother, who has the "big knife fear" (likes to use a 3" paring knife to fully prep even 4" onions...). Hopefully, the light weight and small handles will help her be more comfortable.

That must be the Uchigumo (chefs armoury calls it suminagashi) as the Pro/Blazen is listed at ~440 AUD – albeit out of stock. It also has engraving in Japanese unlike MTC which is English (and kind of unfitting if you ask me)

 

[Nemo]

Never got to play with the red handled version.
I have come close to buying one a couple of times, maybe one day.

There is a place here in Sydney that stocks the 240 black handle, lists rather as it is rarely in stock.
Think it costs aud800-900 at the moment, for that money I can get a custom from a number of aussie makers, and I'm desperately short of space on my mag racks.

I'm not sure how similar the Takamura Pro/Blazen is to the Ryusen Blazen (I've read many different opinions on this). JCK was selling the Ryusen Blazen for 300-odd USD but seems to be all sold out. I got mine from JapaneseChef in Melbourne for 400-odd AUD (similar price). It's a great workhorse. I gifted mine and now I miss it! I still get to sharpen it though.