Wanting to switch to carbon from stainless steel

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arredos

arredos

KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2024
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Good afternoon all! I’m dipping my toes into the carbon world. I have a stainless clad shun set that I’ve used for years. But they loose their edge quickly and they chip all the time. I’m only an amateur home cook, but cook nearly every day, so they see plenty of use.

My plan is to ultimately replace them with higher quality knives that hold an edge better. This led me to the world of carbon. I purchased a small 4.5 inch mini chef knife made from 52100 from element fe forge. I can already tell a difference in quality.

My real question is, how challenging is it to keep rust off carbon knives? I’ve had mine for a couple weeks and it looks good, but I clean it immediately after use and only have used it for smaller jobs. For those that switched from stainless steel to carbon is it difficult to keep up with?
 
Embrace the carbon. :)

I came from a heavy stainless-only background. So much fear mongering out there around carbon. I finally tried a carbon blade and from then on I was hooked! Now the overwhelming majority of my daily tools are iron clad/carbon core knives.

52100 is pretty stable and not too much trouble at all. Many mono steels are like that.

For iron clad/carbon core knives, it is often the cladding that is more reactive than the core steel. But, even then most cladding isn't that bad. I don't do the "must wipe it down before it touches the board" thing. As long as you don't leave them sitting for too long they do alright. By that I mean a few minutes is usually fine. If you cut something acidic, a quick rinse is a good idea.

There's a lot of budget-friendly carbon knives out there that you can consider if you want to experiment without dropping too much coin. The fit and finish will be a little rougher on some options but the blades are good.
 
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Max edge retention you are going to get from "lower" alloy carbon steels is blue super, and apex ultra. The shun def will have better edge retention than 52100...it's probably just ground thinner so the geometry is helping it feel sharper for longer.

Carbon is great, don't get me wrong almost everything I have is carbon, but if you want a nice knife with higher edge retention, a stainless like SG2, or something in magnacut (usually will have to be custom) would be nice for you. Of course there are also high alloyed carbons with great edge retention as well, but that's another rabbit hole.

To answer your question, 52100 isn't too bad. Just build up a good patina, rinse/wipe right away after cutting something acidic, and don't leave it wet for too long.
 
@arredos you're gonna wanna watch this video by @JBroida about one of the best ways to care for your carbon knives while you're actively using them.



As for when you're done with your knife, just wash it and dry it thoroughly before storing. If you're in an environment with a lot of humidity/near salt water, you may want to lightly oil them with tsubaki oil for storage, but I haven't found that to be necessary and I live on the coast.
 
Yep, carbon won't have longer edge retention. Probably won't chip as much, though.

Although I've never had a Shun (and I'm aware of the reputation fir chipping), it's odd that your Shun chips so much. How do you sharpen it? What surface do you cut on? What are you cutting?
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
Embrace the carbon. :)

I came from a heavy stainless-only background. So much fear mongering out there around carbon. I finally tried a carbon blade and from then on I was hooked! Now the overwhelming majority of my daily tools are iron clad/carbon core knives.

52100 is pretty stable and not too much trouble at all. Many mono steels are like that.

For iron clad/carbon core knives, it is often the cladding that is more reactive than the core steel. But, even then most cladding isn't that bad. I don't do the "must wipe it down before it touches the board" thing. As long as you don't leave them sitting for too long they do alright. By that I mean a few minutes is usually fine. If you cut something acidic, a quick rinse is a good idea.

There's a lot of budget-friendly carbon knives out there that you can consider if you want to experiment without dropping too much coin. The fit and finish will be a little rougher on some options but the blades are good.
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Good to know. I definitely don’t leave them sitting out for any length of time. I’ve had carbon steel pans for years know. So was hoping it was along those lines
 
M1k3 said:
Simpler carbon steels won't have better edge retention than the steel used in your Shun's, especially if they're VG-MAX.

They will sharpen up much easier and -can- be tougher though.
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Hrmm. I’ll keep that in mind. Mine are VG10. From what I understand VG-max is a bit of a step up. Not sure why mine chip so much. I don’t cut on anything but a wooden or plastic board. But I did catch my wife cutting on a ceramic plate once.l!! We had a talk about that. It hasn’t happened since
 
Alternatively. You can look at high alloy steel. Not really reactive and can hold an edge forever. I really like my cruwear or you can go crazy and look at 10v that I recently had the pleasure of using.

Edit. Oh yea, magnacut is pretty popular as well.

Edit 2: high alloy also has pretty decent toughness (resistant to chipping) but you also need to consider the angle of sharpening which has a greater degree of impact on chipping than the steel.
 
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jedy617 said:
Max edge retention you are going to get from "lower" alloy carbon steels is blue super, and apex ultra. The shun def will have better edge retention than 52100...it's probably just ground thinner so the geometry is helping it feel sharper for longer.

Carbon is great, don't get me wrong almost everything I have is carbon, but if you want a nice knife with higher edge retention, a stainless like SG2, or something in magnacut (usually will have to be custom) would be nice for you. Of course there are also high alloyed carbons with great edge retention as well, but that's another rabbit hole.

To answer your question, 52100 isn't too bad. Just build up a good patina, rinse/wipe right away after cutting something acidic, and don't leave it wet for too long.
Click to expand...
Thats great to hear. I like the idea of custom knives. And most of the makers I’ve seen work with high carbon steels. I haven’t come across many making stainless knives, thought I’m sure they are out there.

The one I have is 52100 monosteel. I’ve only had it a couple weeks, but the edge has been great. It’s ground to 12 degrees (24 inclusive) so maybe that’s it (the shun’s are around 16).

I’ve noticed the shuns chip a ton, and I do take good care of them. I was very interested in apex ultra and magnacut (seems everyone I’m talking about these right now). But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.
 
arredos said:
But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.
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Ah, we have just the thing!

DitmasPork said:
Recently I've noticed a few members chatting about Knife Japan— @HumbleHomeCook, et al. Admittedly, I've not heard of them, and obviously never purchased anything from KJ.

Finally cruised around the KJ website, first impressions were lots of lefty single-bevel options, and reasonably priced, utilitarian, knives from large number of makers I'm unfamiliar with.
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Knifejapan.com
 
arredos said:
Thats great to hear. I like the idea of custom knives. And most of the makers I’ve seen work with high carbon steels. I haven’t come across many making stainless knives, thought I’m sure they are out there.

The one I have is 52100 monosteel. I’ve only had it a couple weeks, but the edge has been great. It’s ground to 12 degrees (24 inclusive) so maybe that’s it (the shun’s are around 16).

I’ve noticed the shuns chip a ton, and I do take good care of them. I was very interested in apex ultra and magnacut (seems everyone I’m talking about these right now). But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.
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Makers on here that work with magnacut: miscard cutlery, hsc knives, troopah knives, blank blades...who else am I forgetting? Newham makes a mean one, I am going to be selling mine soon since I have a custom on the way eventually.
 
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WCV said:
As @HumbleHomeCook noted, monosteel carbons tend to be pretty stable and easy to maintain. Iron cladding can be higher maintenance and a little finicky until you have a stable patina. Like a cast iron skillet, the more you use it, the better it gets.
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That’s good to hear! I basically use carbon steel and cast iron pans exclusively these days.
 
chiffonodd said:
@arredos you're gonna wanna watch this video by @JBroida about one of the best ways to care for your carbon knives while you're actively using them.



As for when you're done with your knife, just wash it and dry it thoroughly before storing. If you're in an environment with a lot of humidity/near salt water, you may want to lightly oil them with tsubaki oil for storage, but I haven't found that to be necessary and I live on the coast.
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Awesome thank you!
 
Nemo said:
Yep, carbon won't have longer edge retention. Probably won't chip as much, though.

Although I've never had a Shun (and I'm aware of the reputation fir chipping), it's odd that your Shun chips so much. How do you sharpen it? What surface do you cut on? What are you cutting?
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A good mix of protein and veg. I’m American and like to bbq. So lots of protein! I use only wood and plastic cutting boards. My sharpening skills are definitely not at expert level yet. So that could be part of the problem. I just got some angle guides from wedgek which have upped my game considerably. Truth be told, the knife are probably fine, I just want better ones!
 
arredos said:
I’ve noticed the shuns chip a ton, and I do take good care of them. I was very interested in apex ultra and magnacut (seems everyone I’m talking about these right now). But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.
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So I don’t know how true it is but ive read that shuns are notorious for chipping either because they grind them wayyy to thin or they have bad heat treatments causing them to be brittle. But I would not write off the steel due to a bad experiance with shun.

edit: withdrawn.
 
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fortheloveofmoar said:
So I don’t know how true it is but ive read that shuns are notorious for chipping either because they grind them wayyy to thin or they have bad heat treatments causing them to be brittle. But I would not write off the steel due to a bad experiance with shun.
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other vg10 knives are also prone to chipping, I just chalk it up as being a terrible steel.
 
arredos said:
Good to know. I definitely don’t leave them sitting out for any length of time. I’ve had carbon steel pans for years know. So was hoping it was along those lines
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Very much the same in spirit.

I believe I read in your intro about wanting to improve your sharpening. If so, I would caution to not jump into custom knives for a while. I would recommend a simpler knife in a simpler steel.

@mengwong mentioned Knife Japan. A great starting place.

https://knifejapan.com/

VG10 is chippy.
 
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