What knives should I buy?

[Hicks]

LOCATION
What country are you in?
--
USA



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
--
I'm interested in a Chef's knife, a slicer, and a cleaver/santoku.

Are you right or left handed?
--
Right Handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
--
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
--
Chefs - 10"+
Slicer - 8"+
Cleaver/(santoku?) <8"

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
--
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
--
I'd like to purchase an all around chef's knife first, and I don't want to spend more than $250. I'll consider what I want to spend on the next two after I live with the first purchase for a bit.



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
--
Home only

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
--
Everything except fileting a fish and butchering animals. Mostly cutting vegies/slicing meats.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
--
I'm replacing an 11" Sabatier chefs knife from the 80's. I'm going to bring it to get a professional sharpening and re-gift it to my dad.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
--
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
--
Slicing
Push cutting
Drawing

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
--
I want absolute razor sharpness for as long as possible between sharpenings, the european style sharpening device I have sucks and it just eats up the blades. I want something that is nice enough that I would want to take it to get a professional sharpening when it needs it, and practice sharpening on a cheap knife with a cheap whetstone until I feel comfortable doing it myself.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
--
Absolutely needs to be aesthetically appealing. I want this knife to last 5-10 years at least (it wont see rigorous use, but we cook pretty regularly at home for 3-4 people).

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
--
I'm pretty much okay with the Japanese style wood handles. The knife does not need to be perfectly balanced, but it's a plus.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
--
Not a concern, I will care for the knife properly, regardless of what that entails.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
--
2 months-1 year (my current knives need to be re-sharpened with the chefmaster diamond sharpener every 3-5 months, I would prefer to have something that lasts longer than 5 months, but I understand there are some fragile knives out there).


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
--
I use wood exclusively.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
--
Yes, but they are european style, and I hate it.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
--
Absolutely

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
--
Absolutely, within reason.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
How does damascus affect the performance/longevity of the edge? I want performance above all else.

 

[Matus]

Welcome aboard!

Looks like you know rather well what you expect. I see that you would like your new knife to keep good edge as long as possible. That is fine, but let me just say - once you start to learn free-hand sharpening with Japanese water stones you will probably (a) want to do it more often as it is cool and (b) should do it more often to learn it in some reasonable time.

Starting with a gyuto of about 240mm and later add more knives as you gain experience sound like a good idea. Since you are not worry getting a non-stainless blade I would say than go with carbon knife. It is simply more enjoyable to use and care for. You do not mention whether the gyuto should be thinner knife (laser) or a more robust one. Some of your options could be: Gesshin Ginga, Kochi or Zakuri from JKI (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com) that are around your price range. Yoshikane SKD (semi stainless steel) could also be an excellent choice.

Still - your best bet could be to call Jon from JKI and ask for an advice - he will help you to find a knife you need (he is a really nice and helpful person). There are many knives there and each is a little different (thickness, profile, geometry) and finding the one that would work for you best often takes trying a several - with someone like Jon you may have a chance to nail it at first try.

Also - do not get too crazy about looks - the knife (in particular carbon one) will change over time, get some sharpening scratches (that is OK too!). Of course - if you really like what you get you may have a custom handle made for it to have it more to you liking, but you may find that completely unnecessary as well.

It may also be a good idea to read around and maybe even get some of the knife from BST.

Have fun finding your knife

 

[Hicks]

Welcome aboard!

Looks like you know rather well what you expect. I see that you would like your new knife to keep good edge as long as possible. That is fine, but let me just say - once you start to learn free-hand sharpening with Japanese water stones you will probably (a) want to do it more often as it is cool and (b) should do it more often to learn it in some reasonable time.

Starting with a gyuto of about 240mm and later add more knives as you gain experience sound like a good idea. Since you are not worry getting a non-stainless blade I would say than go with carbon knife. It is simply more enjoyable to use and care for. You do not mention whether the gyuto should be thinner knife (laser) or a more robust one. Some of your options could be: Gesshin Ginga, Kochi or Zakuri from JKI (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com) that are around your price range. Yoshikane SKD (semi stainless steel) could also be an excellent choice.

Still - your best bet could be to call Jon from JKI and ask for an advice - he will help you to find a knife you need (he is a really nice and helpful person). There are many knives there and each is a little different (thickness, profile, geometry) and finding the one that would work for you best often takes trying a several - with someone like Jon you may have a chance to nail it at first try.

Also - do not get too crazy about looks - the knife (in particular carbon one) will change over time, get some sharpening scratches (that is OK too!). Of course - if you really like what you get you may have a custom handle made for it to have it more to you liking, but you may find that completely unnecessary as well.

It may also be a good idea to read around and maybe even get some of the knife from BST.

Have fun finding your knife

I've seen a lot of knives that seem to gain a wierd bluish patina, I do not want it to get a patina. From the JKI website, it seems like the Geshin Ginga is a good option. I will call him and ask. Thanks for the info! What is BST?

 

[Matus]

BuySellTrade - Classifieds here on forum. People often like to try different knives, so a lot of interesting knives can be seen there and worth a try.

 

[Bill13]

I've seen a lot of knives that seem to gain a wierd bluish patina, I do not want it to get a patina. From the JKI website, it seems like the Geshin Ginga is a good option. I will call him and ask. Thanks for the info! What is BST?

BST is a very dangerous thread to be avoided at all costs!! Did I mention it can also be harmful to a budget:biggrin:

 

[toddnmd]

If you don't like patina, either stay away from carbon, or be prepared to clean it often. (And aaa lot of it would refer to it as a "cool, bluish patina."
Forget the pull through sharpener and put some money into stones, or at least a combo stone.
Damascus cladding will generally have little effect on performance.

 

[Hicks]

If you don't like patina, either stay away from carbon, or be prepared to clean it often. (And aaa lot of it would refer to it as a "cool, bluish patina."
Forget the pull through sharpener and put some money into stones, or at least a combo stone.
Damascus cladding will generally have little effect on performance.

It is possible to maintain a mirror finish on carbon blades? This is a concern for me, I do not want this blade to appear older than it is just because it's reactive.

 

[Matus]

Blade with patina does not look old just well used

If you learn the proper technique how to use your knife (Jon has a video on that on youtube), than you will not get such a strong patina built up and using some metal polishing past should then allow you to keep the knife shiny. But yes - it is going to be some work. With patine )forced or natural) - the surface of the knife gets less reactive over time. You may also want to consider stainless-clad knives with carbon core where only the core steel will get patina. Patina on core steels is usually much less wild and the edge just get grey and it actually looks cool in contrast with the shiny stainless cladding. Kochi Kurouchi stainless clad gyuto from JKI, or Itinomonn stainless clad gyuto from JNS (http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/) would be examples of such options. There are other knives like that of course.

 

[Hicks]

Blade with patina does not look old just well used

If you learn the proper technique how to use your knife (Jon has a video on that on youtube), than you will not get such a strong patina built up and using some metal polishing past should then allow you to keep the knife shiny. But yes - it is going to be some work. With patine )forced or natural) - the surface of the knife gets less reactive over time. You may also want to consider stainless-clad knives with carbon core where only the core steel will get patina. Patina on core steels is usually much less wild and the edge just get grey and it actually looks cool in contrast with the shiny stainless cladding. Kochi Kurouchi stainless clad gyuto from JKI, or Itinomonn stainless clad gyuto from JNS (http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/) would be examples of such options. There are other knives like that of course.

I'm currently ISO a sujihiki actually, I decided I'm going to re-handle the Sab and and send it to get completely refurbed and sharpened on whetstones and that will be my chef's knife. I've upped my max price to about $600, and I'm really ISO a bargain on BST, and once I find "the" knife, I'll pop a handle from Stefan on that sucker. At this price point, I think I'm going to want something that I don't need to do fanatic anti-patina maneuvers, so I will look into stainless clad carbon. I think single bevel will be what I pick up, it seems more in line with what I want, and easier to sharpen.

 

[chinacats]

I think single bevel will be what I pick up, it seems more in line with what I want, and easier to sharpen.

You were good until you got to this part. Single bevel will not likely be easier to sharpen. You should learn on a double bevel.

At first you said sujihiki and that is a double bevel style and may be a good choice.

Cheers

 

[Matus]

I would say - the Sab will be great to learn sharpening. Do not hurry with expensive single bevel knife. Single belel knives that have roughly comparable blade width and length are called yanagiba and their main purpose is to cut (slice) boneless fish meat. Sujihiki will be better slicer in general as it is double bevel.

And yes - learning sharpening on $600 single bevel knife may soon leave you with an expensive repair by an experienced craftsmen.

Do not hurry - read a bit around, get a few nice stones (you will find tons of advice on stone types and grits) and do watch the videos from Jon - not only on sharpening, but also on steel, knife selection, knife maintenance and use. Those will get you on the track really fast.

 

[Hicks]

I will practice on the Sab! I'll pick up some whetstones tonight and see how it comes along. I've got a ton of junk knives I can practice on first.

I was not aware there were types of slicer (Yanigaba and Suji's) and that they were differentiated by bevel. I will look for a double bevel knife.

 

[daveb]

There's prob a few things you might want to become more aware of rather than engaging in a spending frenzy. Suggest you will be better served by dropping 2 bills each on a petty, gyuto, suji than 6 bills on any single knife. You'll learn more about what you like and have a direction for the future, inevitable, purchases.

A Sab can be a wonderful thing, keep it, use it, maintain it, but not even the best sharpeners can turn it into a Japanese knife.