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I don't mean to pile on, but 5 months is a long time. Although some manufacturers (not necessarily of knives) would stand by their product.

On the other hand, it does still look like a defect from original construction.

I think you have more negotiating room if you use the vendor's recommended sharpener (I understand numerous members here have concerns). Maybe the buyer and maker/vendor could split the repair cost, and perhaps an agreement for replacement in case it is too difficult to fix (which would tilt the balance more clearly as the maker's responsibility).

It would be nice if this could be resolved in a way acceptable to everyone, acknowledging some kind of fault on both sides, and the conditions for repair or replacement would somehow reflect everyone's responsibilties.
 
I would just ditch the knife and never look back.
Been there done that.
All of the options sound like a lot more trouble than the knife is worth.
 
James said:
I'm in a bit of a pickle. So I bought a knife from a vendor (MR) and the blade was left alone for 5 months before I started thinning it. I found some pretty bad grind issues (quite a nice divot 1" in diameter causing part of the knife face to be a bit concave), tried to fix them, couldn't and then and emailed the vendor. The vendor referred me to someone (SF) who works for him and SF wants to charge me to regrind the knife.

Now, I don't really mind paying to fix issues if I caused the problem, but this was a factory issue. Should I just flat out email the vendor back after he referred me to SF and ask for a refund 5 months after I purchased and worked on the knife?
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Find out if the maker guarantees his knives against defects (materials and workmanship). If he does, this issue should fall under warranty - over-grind is not a result of misuse. Time has nothing to do with this - most makers guarantee their products for life. Plus, finish on a knife can hide overgrinds pretty well, so it's not surprising that folks find them when they start thinning knives.

Keep the community posted about what you find out. This stuff should be aired, so others don't end up in your shoes.
 
It's a $70 knife. Polish it back up, keep using it, if a performance issue arises, toss it in the trash. Next time, we will help guide you to a proper purchase....
 
I don't think 5 months is actually too long, given that this would be a matter of warranty, not a return of a new purchase. But...

I'm having a very hard time seeing this as a serious issue. The hollow spot is several years of use away from showing up, and unless it's quite deep, it's unlikely to be an issue even then (the fact that it wasn't noticeable before suggests that it's fairly shallow, and would disappear as the knife is thinned/sharpened). Especially on a $70 knife, your expectations may be a little excessive.
 
mkmk said:
Especially on a $70 knife, your expectations may be a little excessive.
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A $70 knife with a maker's (retailer's) name attached. Wouldn't want my name on that pos. Seems since it is so inexpensive, it would be easier to replace or partial warranty just to promote good will--and not come off like you don't give a crap about your product once it leaves your store. Reputation would be better served to just suck up the loss and move on--again only if you really give a s%#t. Besides how much does he have invested in a $70 retail knife? Enough to take the heat for not just replacing it? Shows what his warranty is worth...my 2 cents.

This goes to the heart of why he has never been welcomed here and why people recommending his products catch such grief.
 
Sure, the seller should have probably done that -- better to just eat it and move on. That doesn't change the fact that it really looks from here like an imaginary problem.
 
i have cheaper knives that have better grinds than that.
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
Find out if the maker guarantees his knives against defects (materials and workmanship). If he does, this issue should fall under warranty - over-grind is not a result of misuse. Time has nothing to do with this - most makers guarantee their products for life. Plus, finish on a knife can hide overgrinds pretty well, so it's not surprising that folks find them when they start thinning knives.

Keep the community posted about what you find out. This stuff should be aired, so others don't end up in your shoes.
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I guess I didn't read it correctly. I thought (SF) made the knife. In the case of $70 knife, I would say trash it or gift it so somebody less scrupulous, and learn your lesson - you get what you pay for.

M
 
James said:
100_2549.JPG


Well here it is.
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Personally I would thin from the back of the divot forward. It doesn't look terribly deep shouldn't cause a hole. I wouldn't do that thinning until I got to that point anyway. So you have plenty of time to not worry about it. And in the end you'll learn a few things sounds like you already have. Worst case you lose some of the tip area, best case it really isn't bad and you end up with a knife that is thinner at the tip. It is a big area but the fact that you are already seeing scratch pattern develop in that area tells me you could fix it with minor hassle. As is the knife didn't cost much and can now provide a value as a learning experience on and off the stones
 
It's a $70 knife? Well that sort of changes things at least from the standpoint of paying for a repair which I feel would be sort of dumb to do. So if you're stuck with the knife then maybe you should either keep grinding or forget about it and move on to something better having learned from the experience.
 
Knowing that there are knowledgeable people who have already chimed in here, are people not bringing up the really wavy looking grind away from the tip because it would just be piling on? Or am I missing something? (I understand that it could be caused by other things, but, assuming the grinding surface was flat, isn't this another grind issue?)
 
mhlee said:
Knowing that there are knowledgeable people who have already chimed in here, are people not bringing up the really wavy looking grind away from the tip because it would just be piling on? Or am I missing something? (I understand that it could be caused by other things, but, assuming the grinding surface was flat, isn't this another grind issue?)
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I noted that but I figured that it could be damage from use.
 
It's the $120 m390 iteration of the artifex, but not a big difference. The wavey grind before the tip is actually caused by an uneven undergrind about 3" long. When placed flat on a surface, the knife does not stay flat, rather it has a rather interesting see-saw effect.

I figure, worst comes to worst, I'll grind away. That wouldn't be too bad I guess, and heck, I'll learn some things. Thanks for all of the responses and suggestions. I love this forum :D
 
Isn't that M390 steel supposed to wicked hard to move too?
Were these contracted out to Lamson as well?
Good luck James, let us know how it goes.
Would you ever buy a MR line of knife again?
 
knyfeknerd said:
Isn't that M390 steel supposed to wicked hard to move too?
Were these contracted out to Lamson as well?
Good luck James, let us know how it goes.
Would you ever buy a MR line of knife again?
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I think we now have a member from Lamson, maybe he can chime in?
 
A lot of people have already touched on this but this is clearly a case of you get what you pay for.
I'm pretty picky too, so I understand why knowing this is there would bother you, but if you hadn't tried to thin it, you may have gone another 5mo or 5yrs (depending on use and how efficient you are with sharpening) before you noticed it and it may never actually cause a performance problem.

I'd be really pissed if I found something like that on a $500 knife and would probably see if I could work anything out with the maker (certainly not a full refund if I'd been using the knife for months), but for a $120 knife made out of exotic steel... meh, not so much. I'd say that you could certainly get $120 of use out of this thing. You could use it as a grinding / thinning practice project and burn through a bunch of steel (and service life) all at once, or you could just thin it BTE, and proceed as you would with any other knife. When you finally wear down enough steel to where you're near the "hole" you would have had to be thinning / removing more metal from the rest of the blade by then anyway.

Still, if you just can't stand the thought of it / knowing that it's there and want to cut your losses, you could dump it on BST at a discounted price and a link to this thread and I'm sure someone (maybe me depending on price)would take it off your hands.
 
James said:
It's the $120 m390 iteration of the artifex, but not a big difference. The wavey grind before the tip is actually caused by an uneven undergrind about 3" long. When placed flat on a surface, the knife does not stay flat, rather it has a rather interesting see-saw effect.

I figure, worst comes to worst, I'll grind away. That wouldn't be too bad I guess, and heck, I'll learn some things. Thanks for all of the responses and suggestions. I love this forum :D
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You're thinning an M390 knife with stones? :rofl2:

So the rippled section in the edge behind the tip is actually a flat spot in the profile? Now this is potentially bad news when seen combined with an over grind from the blade face, you may already have a hole showing here.
 
As a spectator, thank you for this thread! I'm still learning and this is great. My Hiromoto AS has exactly the same looking divot, in generally the same location ... like what Dave already mentioned about Hiromoto AS knives. I didn't know it was called an overgrind, if I'm understanding correctly.
 
I hope this doesn't mess up the Lefty / Pierre / Lamson collab....
 
Marko, I think the sf your thinking of is fowler maybe. I think he's referring to the renowned house sharpener Mr. Knifefanatic himself...
 
I don't think you have the right to expect anything from the vendor because when you tried to "fix" it and found out you couldn't bascially you started something that you can't finish.

When you buy an item you should inspect it right away. Leaving it in the box for 5 months you missed the boat on being able to complain about it and return it. If you can get an M390 knife at a relative bargain price you should be willing to live with some imperfections. If you find imperfections that you cannot live with you should return it, assuming of course that you inspected the knife when you received it. Otherwise you could just live with it as is, find someone to refinish it for you at a price you can live with, or sell it to someone else who wants to fix it up.
 
olpappy said:
If you can get an M390 knife at a relative bargain price you should be willing to live with some imperfections.
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Inexpensive materials? Yes. Imperfections? No.

That's like saying that because you're buying a less expensive car, you should be willing to live with a car that has some imperfections or, rather, defects. Even if I'm buying something less expensive, I expect it to work and not have any imperfections or defects. I wouldn't expect a less expensive car to have leather, nice wood, or a high end stereo system, but I expect it to be well made, albeit with some less expensive materials, to work as intended, as long as expected of other products, without any "imperfections" or defects. This overgrind is a defect.

I do sympathize with the OP, not just because of who he purchased the knife from, but because I still, to this day, find it difficult to notice some overgrinds. I can see moderate to serious overgrinds, but smaller ones require a level of knowledge and concentration and observation that I have yet to master.
 
So you expect perfection? Nothing is perfect. Perfection is an ideal that knifemakers try to achieve but never can be achieved. If you expect perfection, I suggest you make some knives yourself and see how that goes for you. When you can grind a knife blade perfectly without overgrinds, only then should you make them available to consumers.

From the picture that was posted I can't tell if there was any imperfection to begin with, the original finish is no longer visible. All I can see is abrasions from stones. No knife has a perfectly flat face unless it is a custom, any knife made with grinding wheels will have irregularities show up if you start rubbing the face of it on stones. This is not a Doi yanagi we're talking about. Sharpening stones are made for sharpening, not for flattening gyutos. You CAN flatten the face of your gyuto and polish it, I have done it. OP, your knife will be fine, start flattening with 150 grit water stone, once that is completely flat then 220, 320, 400, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000, 6K, 8K, 10K etc. You can do it in about 2 weeks of grinding by hand. I have done it myself.
 
call me insensitive but i find it comical someone would complain about a purchase 5 months after the fact... i still have no clue what the frig an over/undergrind is. does it affect performance? it's not even near the edge so why fuss about it in the first place.
 
I think overgrinds go way beyond imperfections. If you think it isn't gonna affect performance for a while then it ain't so bad. I'd email the vendor and explain the situation very politely and see what happens, it wouldn't do any harm anyway. Detecting overgrinds is tricky. It isn't like you're gonna thin a knife OOTB and it can be tricky to see them by eye
 
panda said:
call me insensitive but i find it comical someone would complain about a purchase 5 months after the fact... i still have no clue what the frig an over/undergrind is. does it affect performance? it's not even near the edge so why fuss about it in the first place.
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I think if you reread some of the earlier posts you will find that the OP never complained about purchasing this knife. He also admitted that it was unwise to wait 5 monthes before inspecting the knife. Just because its not near the edge doesnt mean it will affect performance in its current state. Since I havent used the knife in question myself I really cant comment about its performance. But there are numerous performance setbacks that could potientally arise from divots of this nature.
 
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