Guys I'm as guilty as anyone for slinging a name or two but I'm asking that the insults stop and that we get back on topic here. None of us are into thread locking so let's not go there.
Which stainless can attain the highest level of sharpness?
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goodchef1
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I did a retarded thing with amazing results. I got bored and soaked my beater Hiromoto VG-10 Damascus in etchant solution from Radio Shack 2 part to 10 parts hot water and fell asleep for 40min-1hr. I thought I ruined it because it turned black from all the carbon. But after sharpening and honing, it had an aggressive toothed edge and behaved exactly like my carbon knives, it digs into skin with just the slightest touch, I chipped the heel after dropping it 3 feet on to a til floor, not too bad. Also thinned and etched my Kagayaki, so I have to say VG-10, Hiromoto anyway gets as sharp as any of my other stainless knives I've handled so far.
Touche. But all my gyuto edges are very thin behind the edge, even thinner than yanagi. I'm still left wondering why it can't get to the level of yanagi theoretically. Is it the back side that makes yanagi so sharp? I always thought it'd be the steel, as the kasumi structure allows a better heat treatment and higher HRC number. Even a say a white #2 gyuto honyaki cannot be heat treated the way a white #2 kasumi yanagi can, right?
I think what makes a yanagi so sharp are the geometry and mass up top. They feel sharper, because they are more efficient cutters, as a result of less friction getting in the way. On the side of the ura, you only have a very small portion contacting the product being cut, and what is in contact is going basically straight down (or angled, depending on what is being cut). However, the angle of the total bevel is much more acute because it (obviously) only has one true bevel sharpened to X degrees, rather than two sharpened to X degrees (or 2 times X).
If you factor the angle into the fact that only one side of the knife is resisting your cutting efforts you will undoubtedly get a much easier, cleaner cut.
Add to this, the weight of the blade, which is allowing the edge to do its job with less effort from you, and you've got a true cutter. This theory can be further explained by TK59 and Salty's tomato video. Had the blade only had half the mass pushing down perpendicular to the board (say a small petty vs a gyuto), I doubt the knife would have cut into the tomato, even if the edge were equally sharp and thin.
Think about it this way...How many double beveled chisels have you used?
If you factor the angle into the fact that only one side of the knife is resisting your cutting efforts you will undoubtedly get a much easier, cleaner cut.
Add to this, the weight of the blade, which is allowing the edge to do its job with less effort from you, and you've got a true cutter. This theory can be further explained by TK59 and Salty's tomato video. Had the blade only had half the mass pushing down perpendicular to the board (say a small petty vs a gyuto), I doubt the knife would have cut into the tomato, even if the edge were equally sharp and thin.
Think about it this way...How many double beveled chisels have you used?
Marko Tsourkan
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Ha ha. I knew that was a reason. This is something worth NOT to comment on.
You did not, however, answer any of the questions I asked, so your posts should be taken for what they are - off topic and of not much substance.
But you did make me move a little faster in direction to start backing up my claims.
Working on arranging comparing KD and DT in a rope cutting test. For that matter, we will be open to test ANY Japanese knife against any other knives for edge retention (as long as they have comparable geometry).
Peace,
M
That's how I see it too.
ThEoRy
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Hey what about the sharpness/ retention of zdp189? I have no experience with it but I hear it's a really hard steel. Also what about R2 powdered steel? I can get that sucker ridiculously sharp and it holds it for what seems an eternity...
ZDP-189 can be hardened to something like 68 hrc. I really haven't seen it above 66 hrc (henckels miyabi). My wa-converted Cermax gets pleasantly sharp quite easily and stays sharp and aggressive a long time. Many have commented that it "rapidly loses ~10% of sharpness." While I don'd deny that may be true, I would say the same thing about most other blades, esp stainless. I figure any steel with larger-than-tiny carbides is going to rapidly lose the killer edge and settle into the "very nice" category.
James
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I'm sorry to have posted a topic that generated such a hmmm heated debate. My intention, as you said Dave, was to just get a list of the best stainless steels for cutlery; I'm glad to see that the topic has gotten back on track though as for the edge retention on zdp-189, I have to agree with TK. The edge just settles into the "really sharp, but not stupidly so" category after a few uses in the home kitchen.
OH and for anyone with experience with R2, HOW IS THAT STEEL???? haha I would love to know; can't find too many reviews on it
as for the edge retention on zdp-189, I have to agree with TK. The edge just settles into the "really sharp, but not stupidly so" category after a few uses in the home kitchen. OH and for anyone with experience with R2, HOW IS THAT STEEL???? haha I would love to know; can't find too many reviews on it
I'd love to be able to try out anything zdp-189 as I never considered it because it was so expensive. I also have bad experience with powered steels, so put those two together and I've just never been able to really take the steel seriously.
