Why shigefusa or Kato?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Lets face it gentlemen!

We men, are also forever boys or forever teenagers.
That means that we like toys and gadgets.
All men get fancy with something, a car, a bike, a sound system, a cell phone, a super wood and the tools that they can make a table in their free time, a knife...

A knife, if you are a pro, is a usefull tool. Not more useful than a thermomix, which is a well accomplished chef on its own, but a useful tool.
Appart from a useful tool, that helps you finish quicker and make your life easier, is also a pleasant toy and companion, in the stressful and 'industrial' kitchen environment. A look at it, a touch of it, creates pleasant emotion in you.

As to how good a knife, that is defined by three basic things:
1. What is your philosophy about life, consuming society, and what is important and of true meaning.
But if you have 10 medium price range knives(all the same style, exp.gyutos), I consider it more wise to have 3 expensive

Still an $85 knife(for example Masahiro Virgin Carbon) till $150 price range knife(exp.Pyusen Tsuchime) can cover you for the rest of your career.
(examples based on what I own and find satisfactory)

2. The type of kitchen you work in.
Is it an open kitchen, that everybody has his space and things are always in order and under control,
Is it a Gourmet kitchen, that everybody has the space and the station and things are under control
Is it a huge hotel preparation kitchen that things are not under control, but you have your space (there the knife is the number one tool)
or is it a busy busy small place that things are never under control, and the control is that you cover up in the way?(Here you dont bring your Shigefusha, somebody will damage it, and then you will take your Shigefusa, stab him screaming, and you will end up in jail :) )

3. What is your taste of knives, and how much gravity you give to the meaning 'kitchen knife'. Or, if you are not that much philosophical person, how much obsessed you are with this thing called 'kitchen knife'

4. Had Sigmund Freud been participating in this thread, he would had said that the 'kitchen knife' is the phallic symbol of the cook.
I find nothing wrong in this, since we are cooks, we are men, and if it happens to be any woman in the kitchen-she has balls in order to be there!

In the current kitchen that I am headchef the last 2+ years, the biggest restaurant of my city, hectic place, we try to do decent to good job, we get good scores, bodies fall. I wouldnt put my most expensive knives there. I save them for later years, when I will return to more gourmet smaller kitchens, or you never know, even for a touristic season at a real grand hotel, to do 8 hours cutting, to recharge my batteries and play with my knives.

In the kitchen that I work now, I use 21cm Masahiro Mv-h(for lemons, limes, tomatoes), 21 cm Masahiro Virgin Carbon metal bolster [Top knife, not better to Hiromoto Aogami, but at the 21 cm version I enjoy it more than the 21cm Blazen9at 24cm I enjoy the Blazen more), this Masahiro knife can keep me covered for the rest of my cooking career, but I want more, to rotate, to play, to enjoy other goo knives as well), A hiromoto AS 20cm(divine!), a Blazen santoku, a Victorinox fibrox 30cm flexible salmon, a Masahiro Virgin Carbon m.b. Sujihiki 30cm, a Victorinox rosewood 19cm fish fillet flexible, and a very cheap Zwilling twin master meat fillet. All pretty cheap knives, with the exception of the Blazen santoku, all deliver perfect. You are there!

Still...there are even sweeter candies out there... it 's up to you and your choices.

I have neve seen a Shigefusa, or a Kato.
I bet they must be 'golden medal' knives.
Maybe sometime in the future, I will get the 'Shigefusa disease'...

You dont need such an expensive knife. Then again it will be a pleasure, if you consider it so.

Working with Masahiro Carbon and Hiromoto AS, doesnt give me any headache in a very busy kitchen. We have towels, I make them dry.
Once ore twice a week, I clean them with metal polish, and they shine. Also rubbing both my Masahiros right side on a 10000 grit stone, they became mirror polished. You have to respect the natural curves though
 
P.s I forgot to mention my 11cm serated Victorinox petty(for carton boxes), and my 6cm Masahiro MV birds peak(the square handle of it fits perfect in my palm)
 
And last, but not least, the ggod knife does not make the good cook, and vice versa.

The good Hamono makes the good knife
The good books make the good chef

So, while investing on knives, dont forget to invest in good books as well
 
I am not a lucky headchef... My employer are to aggressive, try to tech them how to take care of the knives but it s a waist of time, that why I will never bring at work my expensive knives.
I would like to own some day one of them but just only if I will get a job in osteria francescana (which is my dream as Italian chef).
Have a knife sitting in a box it s not right!!! As to be use!! 😄

I have the same problem.
I find the idea to not touch each others knives, very very romantic!
Like not touching each others girlfriends!
Osteria Francescana is my favourite restaurant, together with Funky Gourmet(as a Greek chef ;-) )
I did a dessert in this menu, influenced by them , by the gravity effect. Artist and philosopher that Massimo guy
 
And last, but not least, the ggod knife does not make the good cook, and vice versa.

The good Hamono makes the good knife
The good books make the good chef

So, while investing on knives, dont forget to invest in good books as well

Good hamono makes the good knife ?
Good books make the good chef ?
 
By Hamono, I meant the knife maker, except if i am wrong about the meaning of Hamono.
Experience, hours in the kitchen and good older chefs make the good chef. But I was referring to already professional chefs, with some years of experience.
Then, if you do some stages, and read lots of good cooking books and expirement, your horizon opens.
I am interested to hear your point of view, since you are a pro.
Please express yourself
 
Both examples are lot more complex than i can explain with few sentences
 
With a Watanabe kintarou ame knife with engraving and inserted diamond on the blade near the cutting board, I know my service will be exceptional. Good concentration, respect, fairplay, cleanness, stressfree.

I believe the best knife makes a better chef.
 
With a Watanabe kintarou ame knife with engraving and inserted diamond on the blade near the cutting board, I know my service will be exceptional. Good concentration, respect, fairplay, cleanness, stressfree.

I believe the best knife makes a better chef.

As a cook, I get happy to read such words. Purification through cooking.
 
Poor jiro and his crew must be struggling big time with their scratches up , old knives during service and mentally after the service , poor peasants
 
I got a Kato a few months back and a Shig Kitaeji on the way in a few months.
For me it was another step from which I now cannot turn back.

The past 10 years of my life in knives:
Wusthof is good right?
then
Oh cheap Japanese westerns, these are better
then
Carbon Laser Wa-Knives, these are great!
then
Kato, Shig, etc. Ok, now this is the real McCoy.

I have sold a lot of knives to make sure I could afford to keep just a couple real good ones.
I'd rather have just my Kato workhorse than 10 production knives, lasers, what have you.

I am happily in stage three. Don't take this away from me lol
 
Poor jiro and his crew must be struggling big time with their scratches up , old knives during service and mentally after the service , poor peasants

I'm relatively new to the forum, but, if you'll pardon an interloper offering his opinion, what you're responding to wasn't what was said. If someone tells me they're motivated by a thing, I try not to infer that they're knocking another's motivation. If I'm moved to be better by the fact that I don't want to eff up my expensive knife, that doesn't negate, denigrate, or vilify being moved to be better by tradition, my chef, or a box of Cheez-Its crackers.
 
Why Shig or Kato? Because they cut damn well. That's why. Nuff said.
 
Welcome to the forums , I have nothing to add to this thread

Hrm. Really wasn't trying to be a wang, nor to call anyone else one. Just that sussing others' motivations is hard and, ultimately, unrewarding.
 
The popularity of Shigefusa and Kiyoshi Kato knives stems from the fact that they are excellent examples of traditional Japanese craftsmanship. Who could fail to be impressed by Maxim's videos below?

[video=youtube;zNPc6xBBiLk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNPc6xBBiLk[/video]

[video=youtube;TgtFgJR-U_E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtFgJR-U_E[/video]

While Kato is a relative newcomer to the forums, I think their reputation has been cemented by the fact that so many professionals have marked them out as unique performers. Certainly when "lasers" were in vogue a few years ago they would have probably been dismissed without trial.

Shigefusa has been on the radar for much longer, and I think is just about the only "flavour of the month" knife where the hype train has never been derailed. I think this is in part to their scarcity (although they are more readily available now, they used to be more difficult to procure), the craftsmanship aspect above. In addition, Shigefusa has long been considered a benchmark for consistency and F+F.

As for the collecting aspect, I think a better analogy is that if you told someone you bought a set of expensive spanners (wrenches) then spent time polishing them for the purpose of keeping them in their tool chest to look at, they may think you're a little odd. Although I don't understand whisky collectors who don't drink the stuff either (although at the very high end this can be a sensible investment, or at least was 10 years ago).

Personally I think kitchen knives that taint food are unfit for purpose. Personally I wouldn't want a reactive, soft-iron clad knife as an all-rounder (which is how i view my gyuto). As others have mentioned - for the traditional Japanese patterns it makes more sense. If you can attenuate the reactivity of a very reactive knife, more power to you, but I have owned knives that cannot be passivated (and I am a Professor of Chemistry by trade :biggrin:). I don't really agree with the "soft iron is so much better for sharpening" either. It's trivial to sharpen any decent monosteel or stainless-clad carbon knife imo.

Tim,
thanks for sharing both of those videos. I cant believe I havent checked them out sooner. The Kato video especially is very impressive.
 
Actually I was meaning these words: Good concentration, respect, fairplay, cleanness, stressfree.

But I liked and the rest as well, since they went together with these words

The whole pack raises the level
 
''Poor jiro and his crew must be struggling big time with their scratches up , old knives during service and mentally after the service , poor peasants ''

The samurai ate all the rice. Why samurai, you have to be a samurai?
 
Not really.

Craftsmanship is first class.

Performance is unremarkable when compared to other blades.

Hype train is more crowded than ever.

QED.
 
I am not a lucky headchef... My employer are to aggressive, try to tech them how to take care of the knives but it s a waist of time, that why I will never bring at work my expensive knives.
I would like to own some day one of them but just only if I will get a job in osteria francescana (which is my dream as Italian chef).
Have a knife sitting in a box it s not right!!! As to be use!! 😄
And that, Caro.. is why you have.. more Mazaki than anybody not named Naoki. Bless u.
 
I’m noticing some shigs sitting around BST unsold for days and even a couple of weeks.
Yep, perhaps a pause as these have doubled in price in the last couple of years. I’m sure you can remember when they were two hundred and change back in the day.
 
Back
Top