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JPAU

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Hi experts!

Considering purchasing a yanagiba as my first slicer at some stage in the future. Have some longer gyutos and would like something a bit different. Not looking for a premium honyaki, but something that’s mid range (ie not total garbage and difficult to use or maintain). Not worried about sharpening etc. just yet, as I live near several fantastic knife stores in Sydney that can assist.

Not sure what to look for in terms of steel, edge geometry, weight, dimensions, style etc. curved or mostly straight? Pointed tip, reverse tango tip or sakimaru? Grateful for some pointers. Currently have my eye in these (thoughts would be appreciated) but open to suggestions. Not in a rush, but want to start educating myself.

https://protooling.com.au/products/hitohira-tanaka-manzo-270mm-yanagiba-knife

https://protooling.com.au/products/...-sakimaru-knife-aogami?variant=43905555857661

https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/...ducts/nakagawa-blue-1-yanagiba-270-300-330-mm
 
A yani is pretty specialized for slicing sashimi. A suji or sujihiki is a much more versatile slicer for all proteins and will acquit itself well with fish.


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Thanks. Is a yanagiba that specialised?

Do you think that I’d experience a significant benefit over a 270mm or 300mm k tip Tetsuji gyuto? Obviously lighter and less surface area for drag on the sujihiki.
 
I don't use yanagiba but those who do will tell you that if you don't do a lot of fish stick with a suji. There's some good threads here on the matter if you dig a little.

I love having a suji and find the slimmer (height) blade has less drag and performs it's intended task very well.
 
Have you contacted any Australian makers about an Australian-style slicing-knife?
 
For what it’s worth, I’d only use a yanagiba on raw meat or fish. Unless you put a significant koba on it, the edge is just too fragile to deal with steaks, roasts, etc. I actually find that using a longer deba works fabulously for slicing smaller steaks. So, as magnificent as a yanagiba can be, I’d say horses for courses.
 
I would not do recommendation to anyone, suggesting the first slicing toy be the yanagi.

The main reason on my side is not yet the fish game. My thought is based on the profile: yanagi is single bevel, or 100% biased bevel. This asymmetry makes it impossible for beginners to have straight up-n-down cuts. As the first slicer, you might want to have an all-arounder to solve majority of your kitchen problems, and in this regard, a symmetric slicer is always a better choice.

Yes, the thought process above also says no to highly biased sujis, such as the wonderful Suisin Inox Honyaki Wa-Sujihiki, which is 90/10 biased. I love my Suisin, but my love does not render it to be a great first suji for most people anyway.

Once you get a balanced suji, then you have plenty of experience in cutting with long strokes and enough understanding of your favourite cutting angle.

If you are a verticle cutter, stick with balanced bevels. They are good enough to deal with high tech strokes like hirazukuri or hikigasane
If you like tilted oblique strokes, the advantages of yanagi or even fugubiki then come into play for the nice usuzukuri: single bevel allows the slices you cut as thin as possible.

Anyway, the take-away msg is simple: get a 270mm balanced suji with 50-50 blade angle, preferebly inox, as your first toy. It saves you the most of time, money, and energy. It is more than capable of 90% of the kitchen protein work you are ever to encounter, letting alone that the rest 10% is anyway professional razzle dazzle showing-offs.
 
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service.94107 said:
I would not do recommendation to anyone, suggesting the first slicing toy be the yanagi.

The main reason on my side is not yet the fish game. My thought is based on the profile: yanagi is single bevel, or 100% biased bevel. This asymmetry makes it impossible for beginners to have straight up-n-down cuts. As the first slicer, you might want to have an all-arounder to solve majority of your kitchen problems, and in this regard, a symmetric slicer is always a better choice.

Yes, the thought process above also says no to highly biased sujis, such as the wonderful Suisin Inox Honyaki Wa-Sujihiki, which is 90/10 biased. I love my Suisin, but my love does not render it to be a great first suji for most people anyway.

Once you get a balanced suji, then you have plenty of experience in cutting with long strokes and enough understanding of your favourite cutting angle.

If you are a verticle cutter, stick with balanced bevels. They are good enough to deal with high tech strokes like hirazukuri or hikigasane
If you like declined strokes, the advantages of yanagi or even fugubiki then come into play for the nice usuzukuri: single bevel allows the the slices you cut as thin as possible.

Anyway, the take-away msg is simple: get a 270mm balanced suji with 50-50 blade angle, preferebly inox, as your first toy. It saves you the most of time, money, and energy. It is more than capable of 90% of the kitchen protein work you are ever to encounter, letting alone that the rest 10% is anyway professional razzle dazzle showing-offs.
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Thank you! I really appreciate you taking the time to explain.
 
Heckel7302 said:
I own a couple yanagiba, but mostly for the fun of having single bevels. I spend more time polishing/sharpening them than I do actually cutting stuff with them. Sujihiki are a much more practical choice.
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^^^ This is basically it. ^^^

I think I have maybe 7 or 8 yanagi. Most are resto projects that I couldn't bring myself to sell because I'd put so much time into them, and they're so pretty. I polish them and I look at them and I think about how pretty they are, but unless you're a high level sushi/sashimi chef then a suji is gonna be a better option for general use (imo).
 
I might do in the future. Almost bought the Takada sujihiki from a carbon over the weekend, but I have a few 270mm gyutos including ones that aren’t tooooo tall … while I recognise that there would be a difference for slicing, I’m not sure a suji be so novel that I can justify it. Maybe if I see a bargain in BST…
 
JPAU said:
I might do in the future. Almost bought the Takada sujihiki from a carbon over the weekend, but I have a few 270mm gyutos including ones that aren’t tooooo tall … while I recognise that there would be a difference for slicing, I’m not sure a suji be so novel that I can justify it. Maybe if I see a bargain in BST…
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I think you should definitely try a 270mm suji if you haven’t. Would a gyuto even a tall one work? Yes. You can probably slice a rib roast with a bread knife if you need to, but a suji will give you a different enough (at least to me) experience.
 
What do you look for in a sujihiki? What steel? How thick at the spine? What kind of taper? What kind of bevels, how thin behind the edge, what kind of edge geometry etc.? I’ve only just worked out the geometry that I like in a gyuto and I am sure that the features that make a sujihiki a great slicer are unique to it.
 
JPAU said:
What do you look for in a sujihiki? What steel? How thick at the spine? What kind of taper? What kind of bevels, how thin behind the edge, what kind of edge geometry etc.? I’ve only just worked out the geometry that I like in a gyuto and I am sure that the features that make a sujihiki a great slicer are unique to it.
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Others who have a lot more experience in sujis can probably chime in here. Just like gyutos or other things in life, you have to try some and figure out your use case and preference. A heavier 270mm (real 270mm) with same weight (thinking 180g plus) would not be a bad start imo.
 
A friend, two time James Beard nominee, while working on sashimi. It's all he does, and uses a deba as much or more than his yanagiba. I'd think a sujihiki would be a better place to start if wanting a single bevel to play with.
 
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Depends on crusty meat vs not for edge angle, crusty demands more obtuse edge

Dense cooked meats prefer a thinner laser suji monosteel

Portioning raw meat thicker works fine. The extra thickness

Assuming a thinned edge, steering isn't a huge issue for me with yanagi . . . Lotsa monosteel suji will be righty bias

Sticking isn't so much of an issue with suji due to low height, so grind flatness isn't the biggest obstacle as with gyuto

Some suji are wide bevel and thicker overall . . . Heiji style. These work for protein but idk if I like them.

Because of short height, you'll often work with the handle off the counter, more curved suji help offset this but that's the standard position.

Super dense meats like dried cured hams demand a thinner suji . . .because they'll just wedge and get stuck mid cut or steer strongly. So keep that in mind what you plan to cut. Dense or crusty or soft raw or softer medium rare or rare meats or a compromise
 
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I use the hell out of one of these:

https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio.../sakai-kikumori-nihonko-carbon-sujihiki-240mm

Comes in 270 as well. I can't say it is thick but it is sturdier with a right-hand biased grind that is pretty convex to the edge bevel. The SK steel is a real nice do-it-all that takes a nice edge and isn't very reactive. I use it for raw and cooked proteins and lots of tasks to include pizza slicing. It isn't expensive or fancy but it works and works well. If I were to add another, it will be thinner and slicier. Not because I feel this one is lacking but just to capitalize on something more specialized.
 
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