Aizu or Ikarashi?

[cjans]

Hi everyone. i'm looking to add a base jnat for my kitchen knives. I have an ohira suita (3,5) as a finishing stone. I got a 1000 naniwa for the mo, but would like a jnat replacement. Does anyone out there in the stone universe know the general differences between aizu and ikarashi? Would the jump from an aizu/ikarashi to ohira suita be too big? Would people reco an aoto or the like as an in between? Any opinions are moocho appreciated. Thanks for looking. - cory

 

[Jacob_x]

Hi Cory,
I started a similar thread last week, a few threads down, the replies might be of interest to you. Am getting an Ikarashi next week hopefully so will let you know how she fares and in what sort of progression.

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

Cory, here the thread Jacob talks about http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/27113-Medium-grit-natural-stone-aoto?highlight=Aizu

I used to have only two Ikarashis and two Aizus, so not a lot in order to generalize. Maybe someone more experienced will chime in. In my view, the Aizu seems harder and finer. At least with mine, i don't think they were fast at all. The best results i had with the Aizu was when raising a slurry before using it. As for the Ikarashi, it seems like an easier to work stone. I found the two Ikarashis had a bigger difference in grit than the two Aizus. I like both Ikarashis, though. The one that is finer was bought at JKS. I think it could be a middle stone after your naniwa 1k and before your ohira, or as a final finisher on not very fine grained stainless. Maksim used to offer to flatten the stone, but i'm not seeing that option anymore. Maybe if you ask him? Sometimes it shows up on BST, if you can wait.

 

[XooMG]

I'm ambivalent about using stones like the Igarashi or Aizu to sharpen. I think they have some potential for bevel finishing, but for actual edges...not really a fan.

 

[Asteger]

Hi cory - hope can figure out a good 'reco' from all this

Actually, it's good to mention these 2 stones together, although there are too many other 'medium' type naturals to remember that could also be mentioned, too.

Geographically, Ikarashi and Aizu were mined not that far from each other - though still far enough that it was much farther than most Kyoto layered 'finisher' type stones were. Ikarashi and Aizu are also usually the blue-est stones around, and so sometimes I've wondered in the past if the 'aoto' name (blue stone) was originally connected with these, but who knows.

Agree with the above - Ikarashi are a bit coarser, though not widely so. Unless you're a bit of a collector like me, wouldn't make sense to have both as they're close enough in fineness. Yes, both would be a good stone to have before an Ohira, though the Ikarashi->Ohira jump would be more distinct.

XooMG had an underwhelming experience with an Aizu he ordered, which still makes me sad. I've dealt with several Aizu and they were all slightly different, I guess, but close and the variance you'll see between other stones is a lot more. To me the edge you can get from them is really ideal for most kitchen knife purposes. I'm a carbon fan, but have recently messed with a Heiji semi-s on Aizu and have been very happy. I'd do white and blue and Workhorse Kato steel, etc, on them all the time. I don't normally go up to Ohira as, although not super fine, it's finer than ideal to me. Yeah, conventional wisdom has people going finer, but I have some comrades in this too.

Ikarashi would be a more natural match/replacement for a 1k. Think of Aizu as more like 3k. These are just general numbers, though.

Some Aizu can benefit from a bit more slurry help, like a diamond nagura, but that's not the rule. They're pretty fast by nat-standards. To me they also can leave a good finish, too

Overall, apart from the small difference in their fineness and bigger difference in their scarcity and prices, Ikarashi are nice but I think Aizu are the classier, better feeling and useful stone. If my place were burning down and I could only save one stone out of the many I still have, I might grab my Aizu.

Marcelo! - Didn't know you had 2 Aizu. Shame for selling! :curse: Brasil should have at least one. Agree that one of your Ikarashi was a little coarser, the one from me I think; a bit of a faster Ikarashi, too, I think

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

Hi Gerrard! I love your Ikarashi. Nice to have both kinds, one finer, another one coarser. And, yes, yours is faster. I actually like them better than the Aizu.
Like you said, there was little difference between both Aizu stones. In defense of Brasil, i kept one, though!

@Cory: i would give Ikarashi a try. It's not an expensive stone and if you end up not liking it, you could try to sell it at BST.

 

[Asteger]

... little difference between both Aizu stones. In defense of Brasil, i kept one, though!

Whew, relief. Brasil's too big not to have a single Aizu in it, especially considering the many ethnic Japoneses Brasileiros.

Just checking - if you finish an edge on the Aizu, how do you do it? I find I do really well with it after sharpening and then some strops, especially careful edge pushing strokes which I'll usually do on the back side cause it feels better that way.

 

[panda]

I like both, but if you're trying to replace synthetic 1k ikarashi is the closest match. Since you are going up to a finer grit Aizu is not necessary as ikarashi slurry breaks down to around 2k.

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

Hi Gerrard, i usually do some lateral edge trailing sweeps or use a cork/felt. Never tried those edge pushing strokes. So you do it only on the back side?

 

[panda]

It's the same thing but different orientation. Lateral meaning horizontal and push verticle.

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

Hi Panda, i understood Gerrard meant edge leading strokes because he said we'd do it on the back side of the knife. It's just that on the back side of the knife i'm pulling instead of pushing if the stroke is edge trailing. But i might be wrong if back side of the knife doesn't mean the back side (left side) in contact with the stone; if it's opposite (right side in contact with the stone) then it's edge trailing and it would be the same thing.

 

[cjans]

Hi everyone. Thank you kindly for all the great advice and useful info. It all helps at this point. I'm leaning towards an Aizu as it seems to be a pretty quick jnat and members from other forums speak pretty highly of them. I hear you asteger in that the finishing stones might not be needed if my main mid stone is good enough. I've already got the ohira, which i love, so i'll keep it, but the nakayama i bought as well is just plain overkill (for me), so i can see why people dont think the finishers are a must. Im guessing people who take this line though are pretty experienced and knowledgeable with jnats already. For me, keeping the oihra will alllow me to learn about and get a feel for the various stones. Sure, they are expensive, but they are beautiful and lovely to work with. Anyone got an idea of where to source a nice Aizu?