Are Shun Premiers that bad? Thinking about a set for a beginner

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A big advantage for buying shuns may be the option to bring them back to be resharpened to the store you bought them from. For someone with no interests or skill in sharpening, a real plus. Maybe you're near someone who provides excellent sharpening. That gives you more options. Shuns are lovely, they are targeted to home use in my opinion, the profile is not designed for pros who will not rock the blade to chop with or use a blade for a 10 to 12 hour shift. If you can't resist after all these sound suggestions here, maybe buy just, on sale ( all the time). If you're still lovin it, buy the rest. They're not going anywhere
 
Shuns are not bad. If you like the profile, and if you like the steel, go right ahead.

They are bad-mouthed on this forum, and people even complain of the heat treatment or steel. But the uniformity and control of processes in the Seki City knife factories where Shuns are produced are pretty tight. If people are chipping their Shuns, it's usually not the fault of the knife maker but rather, the user. Shuns are no more chip prone than any other knife of the equivalent steel and edge thickness used in the manner in which they are used.
 
This thread is inspiring me to send my shuns off for free sharpening. The service is invaluable if you don't know how to sharpen (though I expect to learn how in a few weeks). Shun knives are still sharp enough to cut you, even if you are being careful. I agree with the idea of trying one out before investing in a set.
 
I discourage home users from buying Shuns because of the difficulty sharpening them. Unskilled use of a sharpening steel will chip the knife, unskilled use of the knife will break tips and chip. Shun does offer free sharpening, though I think there is a service and shipping fee associated with it and 4-6 weeks of delay. Local retailers here, even those that sell Shun, will not sharpen them because 1) Shun discourages it and probably will void any warranty associated with knife and 2) most retail stores "sharpening" setups consist of a behemoth machine with 2 grinding wheels set at 20 degrees. This can do a servicable job with German knives but not so good with Japanese. A dull Shun is duller than an Al Gore speach.

I've gifted Suisin Westerns knowing I'm probably on the hook for sharpening. Most home cooks, IMO, are best served w Germans, Messermeister Meridain, Wushtof Ikon or Henckels 4 Star. Steel them and take them in for sharpening.
 
LOCATION
What country are you in?
United States


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's for sure, but also a couple others such as a paring knife.
Are you right or left handed?
Right handed
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
I honestly have not really tried many handles, but it seems Japanese styles are the most popular/recommended.
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Since I'm interested in picking up several blades, kinda hard for me to answer this. My first knife... so I'm guessing 8" for the gyuto/chef?
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Nope
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Ideally I'd like to keep everything around $500, but I can stretch the budget more if it's something that really intrigues me.


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
100% at home
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
I'll be needing knives for just about everything as I'm also learning to cook as well. I'm sure I can pick up more knives in the future as I learn different types of food prep/cooking.
What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None! My first knives!
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Since I'm learning, I think I'd ideally like to learn the pinch grip.
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Either the push cut or rocking. I think I'll probably select a knife more suited for push cutting instead of rocking though.
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Love the appearance of the layered/damascus and wood handles which is why I think I was drawn to the Shun Premiers in the first place. They look gorgeous lol. But I obviously don't need to buy them or a similar looking knife.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes. I use a wood board.
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
No.
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes... but it scares me that I may mess up.
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Here's some information about myself. I'm a medical student who pretty much just studies nonstop everyday, but I'd like to learn a new skill to help destress and break the monotony of studying. Sooooo I decided I wanted to learn how to cook! My parents can cook, but I live on my own so I have to teach myself. Been watching cooking shows like Gordon Ramsay cookery videos this month, and I realized these cheap knives I'm using are really pretty awful lol. Figured I may as well get a quality set and learn to maintain them as well. I've never sharpened knives before, but I'm interested in learning. Not going to lie, I am a bit worried about completely botching up the knives, but I suppose I could always youtube tutorials.

I know many suggest mixing/matching, but I'm a bit OCD about having everything match so I'd extremely prefer everything come from the same style/knifemaker. Otherwise... it'd just bug me endlessly. I suppose that's another plus for the large collection of different Shun Premier knives, but I think I'd like to learn push cutting whereas the Shun Chef Knives are more for rocking, right?

As I'm very new to this, links to buying them would greatly help as I'm having a hard time just finding them for sale and at the best prices lol. Thanks for all the help you've given me already, but I hope this also helps you guys advise me more!
 
I think people worry too much about destroying their knives while learning sharpening skills. Assuming you aren't using power equipment, it is pretty hard to really destroy a knife by hand sharpening. You may scratch it up a little on the sides but that is just an appearance thing. I'm also guessing anyone in med training has fairly good hand/eye coordination and learning to sharpen should be a very easy skill to pick up.
 
Johnson, Others here will over far more sage advise than I, however for whats its worth, just keep an open mind. I was like you a few years ago, didn't know anything about knives (still learning) and all the talk going around was literally Japanese. It can be intimidating at first, but like medicine, the termonology will make sense if you spend enough time thinking about it. When someone say hipocampus or epiphyseal disc, your like--OK. But when somone says shinogi line or Uraoshi, you're like huh? We were all there once. Things will make sense if you put in the time and keep an open mind. This forum will teach you volumes, you might also make some friends along the way.

The other little tip i'll give you is let go of "OCD about having everything match so I'd extremely prefer everything come from the same style/knifemaker." Let me clue you in on something, everyone on this forum is OCD. Its a bloody pedantical forum deticated to Kitchen Knives and largely japanese knives at that. OCD is a prerequisite.

Mark my words if you buy a set of matching knives: If you buy anything other than Gyuto, Suijihiki and Petty/Utility you'll be getting knvies that you probably won't use.
 
Check out the Shiki's on jck the special edition with buckeye burl is sexy, vg10, sorta similar finish to shun but with a working profile. Never tried one myself, but they look the business if your into Shuns they should be right up your alley, and probably better. You seem to be stuck on the Shuns, so this is my suggestion, they kind of reminded me of Shuns and I really like the look of the paring knife in the series.

They have several series of knives, one being tsuchime damascus just like the shun, they make some really nice handles if you enjoy westerns. Not too expensive either, and cheap shipping from jck.
 
Johnson don't be shy to learn sharpening.I enjoy it & find it a fine relaxed focus.A recomm. would be get a quality single chef knife,not fancy Damascus & learn freehand with it.If you get a fancy blade to learn you might scratch the sides & then it's not so nice as new.Not only will you have a sharp fine blade for your cooking duties you have a skill that frees you fr. someone else buggering up your knife.Some of the best U-Tube in English are Jon's at Japanese Knife Imports. his ---knife sharpening playlist--will steer you in the right direction.You do not need a bunch of stones to start either.A good medium stone like the 1200 Bester will get your chef knife sharp.

Then after you hone your skills if the OCD in you wants some fancy matching knives go for it there are alot of good choices out there.:)
 
Mucho Bocho busted the OCD argument! Ha! We are a bunch of obsessed people here!

In the end, it's your money, and your choice. But most people on here are going to advise that you're sacrificing a good bit of performance and value to get that matching set.
 
How bout buying a 8 inch Forschner and a stone, both for under $100. Learning how to sharpen, and the process of sharpening can be great therapy. It's a good knife and you won't feel bad about scratching it up a little as you learn.
 
I usually resist, but I'll pile on here.

Regarding the OP, stay away from that set that you linked. Shun Chef's knives have a lot of belly which makes them in theory, less useful for push cutting/better for rock chopping in theory, except steel is hard enough that rock chopping will damage the edge. The "sharpening steel" is also more likely to damage these knives than straighten the edge. That serrated utility knife is completely useless. I don't think that herb shears are particularly useful; I'd stick with a full sized take apart kitchen shear. I can't say anything in particular against the paring knife or block. Overall, Shun knives are overpriced for what you get, no matter if you are considering looks, performance or a combination of both.

It seems like you want knives that are a few steps above average, but also highly aesthetic, hammered damascus in particular. There are a handful of very similar affordable knife lines that are (or were) available, mostly in VG-10 stainless. As others pointed out, the Gonbei line from JKI, and as of now there's a Western Handled Togiharu Hammered from Korin. There used to be a few more lines like Inazuma/Gekko from JCK, but they seem to be going out of stock and not coming back. You can get an 8" chef's knife (although I'd recommend a 240mm knife instead) and a parer for about 1/2 your budget.

I strongly suggest that you get into sharpening your own knives. I really like the Bester 1200 to start, but if you think you can drop some money on it all at once, pick up Dave's core set of stones from Japanese Knife Sharpening. I'd love to recommend his DVD, but with a budget I think that you'd be better off sticking with Jon's YouTube videos to save a little money for either a stone flattener, another knife, a honing rod and/or stropping materials.

My 2 bits,
-Brandon
 
OP: I think that you knew the answer that you'd get when you posted here "Are Shun Premiers that bad?" You're obviously looking for a quality product, i think that you should look for something special rather than something 'not that bad'.

A lot of non-knife people I know like to have the big knife block sitting on their bench with a matching set of knives - I store my home knives on a wooden magnetic rack mounted on the wall, which I think a much cooler kitchen feature than a knife block. Perhaps if you really want to have all of your knives to look the same, just pick an aesthetic and stick with that, i.e western handled knives with dark handles, or wa-handled knives with dark horn ferrules. Were you to do this, only knife nuts would notice that they are from different ranges.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but I like the idea, that if you are going to spend 80% of your time using your gyuto, then you might as well spend 80% of your knife budget and make that one knife great.
 
Here is what I have to say on the matter. I've never been a proponent of Shun's VG10 steel. Some have supported me, some have said it's my lack of ability. If it is the latter, then so be it. I agree with whoever said there is a lack of feedback when sharpening. I havne't found them to be too chippy when properly maintained, just a little more difficult to sharpen.

All of that aside. Adk yourself these questions. If you are OCD, are you going to be ok with all of that bling fading away withing a year. Those hammered damascus knives will not hold up well to minor scratches (fellow student had the Myabi version, and after a year, the center of the knife just looks unglossed and worn). Also as an OCD, are you going to be okay when the factory Shun mark's start fading or getting scratched away. The thing about these knives, is that you'll never be able to attain the absolute "bling" they come with out of the box. Where as with many other options, you can care for the non bling that the knives comes with, and in the case of carbon, even add a little of your own bling.

One more question to ask yourself. Will you continue to visit this site, or be a knife enthuisist after this purchase? If so, and with the more you learn, you will always regret spending that initial amount on these knives. It's not to say they are bad knives, it's just to say that when you spend some time in the community, you regret purchases you made on impulse while trying to jump in. I'm guily of it and so is half of this board. If we can stear you away towards a path that't right for you, then great. If your content with these, you should be, their decent knives. Bottom line, if you plan on being an active member here and learning more about knives in general, you should heed advice and avoid these things like the plague.
 
If you really like the aesthetics of the Shun premiers, you may want to have a look at the Miyabi artisan line. The aesthetics are almost exactly the same, but the miyabis are sg2 steel instead of vg10, have a flatter profile and an eased spine and choil, which the Shun I handled did not have. That said, I think the miyabis also skew toward overpriced. I'm not sure if Sur la Table is still running the sale they had on the 8" gyuto (around $140 or so, I think?) anymore; if they are that makes it a better investment. That said, I'd probably have a look at that new line from JKI first. :2cents:
 
I know I'm late to the party but I came here a few months ago asking for the same advice on the same knives. The very knowledgable members gave me a few recommendations and in the end I bought the Misono 440 gyuto and petty set from Korin. Words can not describe how much I love these knives! They are perfect for me as a home cook and the price is very reasonable. Every time I use it I think of the conversation I had here :)
 
Korin is having a 15% off sale too and many different brands of knives to choose from. I got the Misono 440 but you may like something else. I keep my knives in a drawer block because of space issues but the magnetic strip is rather nice and is more eye pleasing than a counter block in my opinion. I find it to be very "cheffy"

As a home cook I find myself using the gyuto/chefs knife for most everything then my petty and a cheap Victorinox boning knife for breaking down chickens. Occasionally I'll use my Tojiro bread knife for bread or tomatoes. Those 4 knives are the only ones I need for all of my kitchen duties and I cook a LOT! I've had the blocks and I never used half of them. No reason ill ever need a birds beak knife, I'm not making radish roses anytime soon lol
 
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Wow, did not realize that all the "bling" on the Shun will eventually fade away. You guys convinced me that I should avoid the Shuns. I still have much to learn, but I definitely hope to remain a member of this community even after getting my knives. :)


That said... it seems like many of you are saying I will be using a gyuto for over 90% of the time. Should I just invest in a single high quality gyuto knife and slowly buy other knives later this year as I get enough money? (Just to clarify... the petty knife is for paring, the sujihiki is for slicing meat, and the gyuto knife is for everything else?)
Looking through this thread and searching the forums, it seems the Gesshin Heiji and the Suisin Inox Honyaki are extremely well regarded. The Heiji is definitely eye catching, but what sets the Heiji and Honyaki apart from other knives and each other?

I'm also getting the vibe that I shouldn't be afraid of sharpening, but do all Japanese knives follow the same basic sharpening procedures?
 
Sounds like your on the right track. Gyuto is definately most important, followed closely by a stone. (chicken and egg...) I think you have enough room in your budget for a very well regarded gyuto, a good starting stone and also a smaller petty or parer (i would go for petty). A gyuto will slice meat and even cut bread very well until you get more specialised knives. Both the knives you mentioned are going to be more than good enough. Most would say get something a bit cheaper initially until your confident in sharpening, and with these knives i would agree. For $300 you can get an excellent gyuto that some would even prefer over these knives.
Differences are mostly personal preferences when you get to this price range. And yes, all western style japanese knives (double bevel) follow the same basic sharpening technique. Single bevel is a bit different but id say most of the knives you are looking at would be double bevel.
 
Amon-Rukh said:
If you really like the aesthetics of the Shun premiers, you may want to have a look at the Miyabi artisan line. The aesthetics are almost exactly the same, but the miyabis are sg2 steel instead of vg10, have a flatter profile and an eased spine and choil, which the Shun I handled did not have. That said, I think the miyabis also skew toward overpriced. I'm not sure if Sur la Table is still running the sale they had on the 8" gyuto (around $140 or so, I think?) anymore; if they are that makes it a better investment. That said, I'd probably have a look at that new line from JKI first. :2cents:
Click to expand...


I think Miyabis are underrated. Other than the slippery D-shaped handle and weight imbalance on some of the 7000 and 5000 lines, they are great. The geometry on a Miyabi Fusion gyuto (VG10 steel) is superior to that of any Shun that I've handled. And the Miyabi is priced aggressively as well. I finally got a chance to handle and use the Miyabi Morimoto 600MC gyuto, and it is a true pleasure to use. The geometry on a Miyabi Fusion is identical. I could care less whether it is coming from a 'mass production' company instead of some of the smaller esoteric makers. If it performs well, it performs well.

When it comes to knives, the best thing is to handle and cut with a knife and take the one that feels the best. There's so much variation on handles that you have to really handle one to know what you like.
 
That said... it seems like many of you are saying I will be using a gyuto for over 90% of the time. Should I just invest in a single high quality gyuto knife and slowly buy other knives later this year as I get enough money?
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Yep pretty much. With gyuto you can do pretty much anything you will do at home. For the peeling task, you can use your old paring knife for now and buy a petty once you decide on the model. For the petty I recommend something cheaper and stainless as it usually gets more abused then the gyutos....
 
The miyabis have been slowly growing in price. I bought a miyabi kaizen 2 decembers ago at sur la tab, 240mm was 150 $ at the time. It was my first j knife (if youll call it that) and in every aspect I liked it better than any shun ive used yet.
But now that we have prpgressed past shun to a SIH and a heiji the real fun has begun. In all honesty, instead of dropping huge coin on that first knife which is gonna see a lot of wear and tear from learning to sharpen and how to cut in general, why not look for something appealing to pop up on BST? Lots of good deals for GOOD blades..
My $.02
 
In all honesty, instead of dropping huge coin on that first knife which is gonna see a lot of wear and tear from learning to sharpen and how to cut in general, why not look for something appealing to pop up on BST?
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I tend to disagree. At least when I buy things I like to buy good quality things, knives included. If I spend $80 on an OK gyuto now, I will still buy the $300+ one later. So what is the point on spending the initial $80? It is better to buy a set of stones or a stone for that extra money. You can learn to sharpen on your old knives. Every household has them.
 
Ruso said:
I tend to disagree. At least when I buy things I like to buy good quality things, knives included. If I spend $80 on an OK gyuto now, I will still buy the $300+ one later. So what is the point on spending the initial $80? It is better to buy a set of stones or a stone for that extra money. You can learn to sharpen on your old knives. Every household has them.
Click to expand...

I also would agree learning to sharpen on house knives is the way. But OP stated he is a med school student without any initial equipment, hes buying his first not upgrading.
 
last night the pantry cook at my work let the broiler cook sharpen his shun santoku on a diamond steel and it got all scratched up. the kid now wants 100 dollars to get a new one because of the scratches. I just thought I would add this because I think it's funny.
 
Brad - that makes me feel really really really sad.
 
Well I think that for a beginner there might be quite a few gyutos out there under 200$ that will be quite performant, will give the OP satisfaction, and wont be intimidating when put through initial stone sharpening exercises. I'm sure everybody will be able to name at least a few. Maybe a better choice than going straight away to a 300+ $ option?
 
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