Bill Burke 240+ mm midtech prototype review 1.0

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What I meant to say was, I did not take nitice of wheather or not all of the sanding marks were removed from the previous grit belt before I moved on to the next belt ie... while grinding at 400 grit I did not make sure all the scratches from the 220 belt were removed before going to 800 grit belt. Obviously i did try and remove most of them though.
EdipisReks said:
it was the "almost no care" that piqued my interest.
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I agree with many of the issues TK is stating here. It was my understanding that the Burke-Tec was his way of doing a mid-tec knife. I.E. saving time and money by having the blades water jet cut and sending out for heat treat. I would expect Bills mid-tec to be above the standards of other mid's especially considering the it's priced almost 2x the price. So while the fit and finish to the knife should be "standard" I.E. little or no chose of the buyer it should however be top notch. Grinding issues, bolster gaps, ext. are thinks that would bother me in a knife in this price range.
This being a "new" type of knife/level of knife for Bill I think he should have had someone (cough me :cool2:) / a few people check it out and give him feedback befor he sold the knife, especially to someone with such discerning taste as T.K.
 
isn't this a prototype? Doesn't that mean that it is a piece that is specifically made to be reviewed and have all the kinks and issues worked out before you go into production. This is a prototype, not a perfect production model. I know that Tk is a perfectionist when it comes to his knives and has incredibly high standards as he should, but not everyone carries a 20x loupe to look at their knives. keep in mind this is a prototype and all the kinks haven't been worked out yet.
 
sachem allison said:
isn't this a prototype? Doesn't that mean that it is a piece that is specifically made to be reviewed and have all the kinks and issues worked out before you go into production. This is a prototype, not a perfect production model. I know that Tk is a perfectionist when it comes to his knives and has incredibly high standards as he should, but not everyone carries a 20x loupe to look at their knives. keep in mind this is a prototype and all the kinks haven't been worked out yet.
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Only 20x? You wound me, Son. You make a good point but if I thought there was a chance that the knife I made had some issues, I'd be taking the route Colin described. I don't think my standards are incredible either. I put up with plenty. The next time you're in SD, stop by and I'll show you what I mean. However, a tool has to perform its intended function well (if it's expensive then VERY well) and it has to be comfortable to use.
 
i understand, not bagging., but like Bill said he didn't make that knife for you, if he had all of the issues that you mentioned wouldn't be there. probably a scanning electron microscope in 3d and infrared.:D I know what you mean about the cost, you buy a Ferrari you want a Ferrari not a vette.
 
sachem allison said:
...like Bill said he didn't make that knife for you,...
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I'm pretty sure he meant it's just not a custom. In that case, he takes some time to make sure the handle is the right size and does the knife to spec.
 
thank you for the great review TK. Custom or not, prototype or not, mid-tech or not....... for a $850 knife, things like that shouldn't be happen.
 
An overall B is not a negative review. Honest, maybe...

I, quite frankly, am tired of all the sucking up. If a product is to be top notch, honest assessment is necessary. Some on these forums have made these customs to be the "end all", yet just through a picture I can see a useless profile, or bad grind (no knife in particular)...

As a chef if my risotto is overcooked, or my sauce is broken, or a dish is over-seasoned, you darn well better believe I will hear about it!!!!!
 
NO ChoP! said:
An overall B is not a negative review. Honest, maybe...

I, quite frankly, am tired of all the sucking up. If a product is to be top notch, honest assessment is necessary. Some on these forums have made these customs to be the "end all", yet just through a picture I can see a useless profile, or bad grind (no knife in particular)...

As a chef if my risotto is overcooked, or my sauce is broken, or a dish is over-seasoned, you darn well better believe I will hear about it!!!!!
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I agree that a honest review is beneficial to a maker. Sending knives for a private feedback is not a bad idea either.

M
 
This knife is going back to Bill for some modification. If it comes back awesome, I think his reputation can only benefit. I would be wary of buying a knife from someone that was interested in building a reputation by hiding the quality of their product, as your (JMJones) post seems to imply.
 
Thanks for the review Tk.
 
It's starting to get a little contentious around here. Please remember to try and keep it civil, folks. :D

Thanks.
 
Gents,
This thread has gone off the rails- as policy here at the KKF respectful and thoughtful reviews of products and vendors are welcome and encouraged.
Broaching questions about how a review was done is fine- questions about why a review was done would fall into the heading of a personal attack and will not be tolerated.
The review of an item that is sold to the public by a vendor is a valuable resource,both for the vendor and the buyers. A manufacturer would have to spend 10's of thousands of dollars to organize a focus group as knowledgeable and enthusiastic as this one. They would be foolish to squander it.

All off topic posts in this thread will be removed. Please contact me via PM if you have any question.

Jim
 
Gents, Just to clarify

Feel free to talk about the reviewed knife. Comments about the inappropriateness or otherwise of the review are specious and will be removed.

The team thanks you for your cooperation.

Jim
 
I'd be interested to see some shots of the DT ITK proto compared to different generations throughout the years, leading to the most recent. I'd bet they've been tweaked and changed quite a bit, probably due to DT's high interest in customer feedback...

I think we owe it to Mr. Burke to evolve with this endeavor, and at the very least applaud him for trying to deliver a product, that to some at least, may have been unobtainable before.
 
NO ChoP! said:
I'd be interested to see some shots of the DT ITK proto compared to different generations throughout the years, leading to the most recent. I'd bet they've been tweaked and changed quite a bit, probably due to DT's high interest in customer feedback...

I think we owe it to Mr. Burke to evolve with this endeavor, and at the very least applaud him for trying to deliver a product, that to some at least, may have been unobtainable before.
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:plus1:
 
profile-rt.jpgprofile-lt+tkc.jpgchoil close.jpgchoil vs tkc.jpgspine vs tkc.jpggrind.jpgbolster fix.jpg
tk59 said:
Aesthetics BThe hamon and the lines of the knife are elegant and the finish is handsome, imo. However, the bolster looks sloppy. Bill pulled off two pins very well, but it is well documented that three pins would look better to more people...
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A-. The bolster issues are resolved. There is still a ridge on the bolster that is pretty common among westerns but I don't have a problem with it. It isn't fancy but it's nice and clean. Fixing the divot and the belly led to a very slightly wonky-looking profile that is hard to describe and doesn't show well in pics (since it looks nice to me in my own pics, lol). The spine droops down from the bolster to the tip a little and probably causes the heel to look wierd, too. Anyway... Enough of that. The finish looks almost hand rubbed but is in fact machine finished.
tk59 said:
...Fit and finish CThe bulk of handle is comfortable but it is not very symmetric. Most of the spine is rounded except for the divot two thirds of the way down the blade toward the tip. The choil is not rounded and has what I would characterize as a burr on it. The bolster-blade transition is poorly finished with cracked solder that appeared to leak out of the bolster/tang joint. The bolster also has sharp corners on it that did bother me with certain grips, esp. sharpening. The heel was nearly flat ground and the choil view appears very thin but the knife thickens up near the edge and becomes more convex as it approaches the tip. Other than that, the grind was a little wavy in places but I thought they were within reason and the coarse grinding scratches were clearly visible under all of the polishing. They are closer to gone than what you would see on a Carter but they are there...
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A-. I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish at this point. It isn't perfectly finished (no knife is, really) but I'm not complaining.
tk59 said:
...Performance BThe geometry is very good in some places and merely good in other places. The knife is not super thin and the taper isn’t dramatic but it cuts very well without feeling clumsy in spite of the tall heel to spine height. The profile is quite curved which is hard to get used to and the tip is very high. The actual tip work is very good to excellent as long as the cutting surface is low. Heel work is nice but there is a lot of sticking in that part of the blade. The knife felt a little thick toward the middle of the blade. The edge was very nice and stayed nice over limited use...
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A-. The grind is the same but thinner. The profile is also much nicer. I still think the heel is overly flat but not terrible.
tk59 said:
...Sharpening ABill’s version of 52100 sharpened quickly and easily and took a very nice edge. I didn’t use the knife enough to really get a grip regarding edge retention but I can say I observed no noticeable chipping or deformation in light use over a couple of weeks...
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Nothing really to add here. Same awesome steel. Bill's edge was very clean and sharp this time around.
tk59 said:
...Overall BThis is a nice knife by most measures. Depending on individual preferences, it may arguably be the best cutting custom gyuto I have used that was NOT made by Murray, Devin, Rottman or someone in Japan. Perhaps I am too picky or a cheapskate but at $850, I find this knife is intolerably uncomfortable and it really shouldn’t be this sloppy.While these comments are 100% my own opinion, I have made every effort to obtain unbiased feedback from the six other knifeknuts (with considerable experience among them) whose hands and eyes examined and used this knife. The feedback was quite consistent with my own. One person appreciated the extra thin heel and a couple of them were more upset about the bolster than I thought was warranted...
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A-. For many, this knife may very well garner a solid A grade. My personal preference is for the tip to be a bit lower, mainly and the balance between thin and convex could be better. I would say an apt description of this particular knife is a suped-up stock TKC (which is a great knife) made with Bill's signature look. I'm sending it back to get the maker's mark reinstalled.
 
Yup. I had a few conversations with Bill about knives in general. I think it is fair to mention that Bill doesn't usually make knives in this fashion but rather forges them to spec. These are very good knives, esp. if you value keen edge retention.

Oh, and the knife lost a mm or so on height and a few on length. The TKC in the pic is 235 mm.
 
I think you will be very happy about the edge retention. A couple of experienced knuts other than myself have tried out the knife in its current form and we all agree the edge it takes is nice and it also freshens up very nicely on a conventional strop. The knife has been very well received.

BTW, if you've tried out this knife and want to chime in, please feel free.
 
I used the knife for about two days. Should of kept it longer. I used it a solid amount and notice little depreciation in edge retention over that time. Nice bite in the steel and the edge TK gave it. The profile is suited best for rock cutting. It is not the thinnest knife so people will feel there are knives out there that are better cutters. But what stood out to me the most is I felt like I could use the knife all night long and not get fatigued. I really can't understate how big that it is. There are a few things from a profile standpoint I would change because of the way I personally cut. but I enjoyed my short time with it.
 
Thanks for info. Who is on this passaround list?

I was thinking about passing around my angels: Doutzen, Alessandra, Adriana go Tyra.
I will talk to Bill about it as they are going to Blade with him, and that I want to have them to my birthday 27th june.
Bill is about to start on them now: Parer, Petty, Gyuto and Suji.
 
So I know that Tihn passed this knife around to some of you I would really like to hear from you guys that used the knife, good and BAD.
 
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