California Foie gras ban

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mano said:
Craig is right. I say we start a movement, right here, right now:

FREE THE DUCKS!
FREE THE DUCKS!
FREE THE DUCKS!

Enough of quacking the quack, let's waddle the waddle all you lucky duck lovers!
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I said no such thing. I clearly said when I got involved in this that I don't know enough about how the ducks are treated to say if the ban is merited one way or the other. All I'm saying is bringing up how badly other animals are treated as a reason to strike down the ban is a logical fallacy.
 
Craig said:
I said no such thing. I clearly said when I got involved in this that I don't know enough about how the ducks are treated to say if the ban is merited one way or the other. All I'm saying is bringing up how badly other animals are treated as a reason to strike down the ban is a logical fallacy.
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Not to mention being incredibly condescending.
 
I think the way the goverment regulates food is a greater ridiculous invasion of our freedom of choice. People are free to choose what they eat and why. So suddenly we are worried about duck and the foie gras like we have managed to solve other great falacies of our society? we import baby bottles that contains carcinogenic components in them from our good good china but worry about the three times a day ducks get fed because of centuries old practices?
I see homeless people. There are a lot of homeless people here in Baltimore . I see people going throught the trash to find food sometime .It is not funny that we debate about animals.And thats coming from a guy that was raised in an enviroment where animals were raised like family members.So please understand what i am trying to say. I thinkthe debate is deeper here.
And to set the record straight. I have a problem with an agency that is against cruelty to animals but puts a lot of dogs and cats to sleep . What do you guys know about PETA? Ask someone that leaves in Norfolk and he will tell you .
 
You can't choke waterfowl by shoving something down their throat like you would choke. If you have a sick duck or goose and are nursing it back to health you are supposed to feed it by funneling down the throat. They can still breath while this is happening. The Egyptians noticed long ago that before ducks and geese migrated their livers got incredibly fatty and delicious, so they started feeding them.

I'm glad in Canada, atleast in Quebec it is part of the culture here so bans like that in California will not happen. Just because Foie is a fad in California to eat, doesn't mean it is in other parts of the world, to a lot of french it is a part of life, and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I have seen Geese fed, and they are absolutely more pleasant than chickens on chicken farms. Where it isn't uncommon for dead chicks to be pulled out of cram packed feeding areas daily. People generally have no problem with how their chicken is handled, whether it sits in its own crap all day or if it comes to them with broken bones, but don't force feed my duck! Gonna go cut off a piece of my torchon, everyone in California, you guys can enjoy your chicken and avocado sandwiches, err whole wheat wraps or whatever you put that on :D.
 
cookinstuff said:
You can't choke waterfowl by shoving something down their throat like you would choke. If you have a sick duck or goose and are nursing it back to health you are supposed to feed it by funneling down the throat. They can still breath while this is happening. The Egyptians noticed long ago that before ducks and geese migrated their livers got incredibly fatty and delicious, so they started feeding them.

I'm glad in Canada, atleast in Quebec it is part of the culture here so bans like that in California will not happen. Just because Foie is a fad in California to eat, doesn't mean it is in other parts of the world, to a lot of french it is a part of life, and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I have seen Geese fed, and they are absolutely more pleasant than chickens on chicken farms. Where it isn't uncommon for dead chicks to be pulled out of cram packed feeding areas daily. People generally have no problem with how their chicken is handled, whether it sits in its own crap all day or if it comes to them with broken bones, but don't force feed my duck! Gonna go cut off a piece of my torchon, everyone in California, you guys can enjoy your chicken and avocado sandwiches, err whole wheat wraps or whatever you put that on :D.
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I was going to respond in French, and not so nice words. Instead, I will refrain and say your statement about California eating habits is inflammatory and very incorrect. I for one don't appreciate government reducing rights of individuals anywhere in the world never mind where I live here in California.
 
Here in Portland our chickens have first names and get massages and cappuccinos with their croissants.
 
really enjoyed the ted talk post. i really want to try that guys duck now... ya i guess the liver too but the rest of the duck is also very tasty im sure. i never was into foie gras. it is always too rich for me perhaps Eduardo Sousa's foie is that much better but something tells me i will always be a breast and leg kinda guy.
 
"Shark fin soup" was obviously a too cryptic observation. Is there no dietary practice sufficiently cruel and wasteful to justify government intervention, or does "freedom" cover whatever we do?
 
SpikeC said:
Here in Portland our chickens have first names and get massages and cappuccinos with their croissants.
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Was he a friendly chicken, did he have a lot of little chicken friends?
 
As someone working in public health, I am all for government regulation in the context of food and nutrition. But that mostly means regulating the food industry that sells us cheap crap with sugar in it and spends billions to make us think we like the stuff... Unfortunately, it not only seems easier to get votes from the unknowing public for 'rescuing' poor little geese and ducks and get to the 'elitists' who eat this 'decadent' stuff, it's also a good way to distract from the bribaries and 'lobbying' money that flows into politics from the food industry... (and if that is too political, please feel free to delete it...).

That said, I am sure there are some foie gras producers who abuse and mistreat their animals, but this is the exception whereas it is the tolerated standard in farming chicken, cattle, and pigs - as was mentioned before. I have been to the Alsace numerous times and talked to people there, and I was convinced that small scale production of foie gras is easily within my personal set of ethics about what I eat and what I don't eat. Shark fins, btw, are not. Consequently, I have eaten quite a bit of f.g. when in the Alsace...

In any case, supporting small farmers, entering the markets with cleanly produced, seasonal and regional products is a great movement. I think we here as food aficionados may still see this more clearly than the general population, I just hope that this will get better in the future.

Stefan
 
Cipcich said:
"Shark fin soup" was obviously a too cryptic observation. Is there no dietary practice sufficiently cruel and wasteful to justify government intervention, or does "freedom" cover whatever we do?
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No. That wasn't too cryptic at all. Hunting sharks to extinction (not to mention throwing them finless back into the ocean) is definitely something I have a hard time swallowing (figuratively speaking) regardless of the purpose.
 
He was president of his cluckturnity.
 
*shrugs*


As long as that funnel is already in there... how 'bout they get rewarded with a beer bong chaser?
 
Foie gras production is pretty small potatoes compared to all the other cruelty that goes on in the food production industry of this country, but it's cruelty none-the-less. I think that any instance of unnecessary harm perpetrated against the animals humans raise for food ought to be outlawed and punishable under the law to help deter farmers from engaging in cruel practices that are economically advantageous.
 
kostantinos said:
I think the way the goverment regulates food is a greater ridiculous invasion of our freedom of choice. People are free to choose what they eat and why.
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I assume you meant people should be free to choose what they eat and why, but then I wonder what you might think about a person who chose to eat another person or the living property (pets, food animals and produce) of someone else without that person's consent? Or what about a person who chooses to torture animals before he or she eats the animals?
 
Perhaps they could give some of them beer, and some of them Cointrea and that sort of thing to further make foie gras a delicacy with different variations?
 
This is, after all, America, where corporations are people, and animals aren't . . .
 
Corporations are legal persons. Not sure what the precise definition is, but you need to be a person to own property - and corporations can own property :)
 
tk59 said:
No. That wasn't too cryptic at all. Hunting sharks to extinction (not to mention throwing them finless back into the ocean) is definitely something I have a hard time swallowing (figuratively speaking) regardless of the purpose.
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Clearly, finning sharks is an despicable practice, whether to make soup or sport. That's why I chose the example. But you've ducked the question. Is your, or my, personal aversion to a practice enough, or does it indeed justify government intervention. As I believe you asked, where's the line, and who decides? Is there nothing that warrants an infringement on personal freedom?
 
It may be dispicable to me or you but I don't know that it isn't just a product of the culture we chose to embrace and I didn't mean to duck the question. I don't have an answer. It doesn't change the fact that I don't want anybody telling me what I'm allowed to eat or otherwise infringing on my personal freedom, as you put it. Sorry.
 
I asked my father what he thinks about this ban over cocktails tonight (he is a good cook, fairly adventurous eater, and well enough off financially to eat in restaurants that would have foi gras on the menu). He was under the impression the ban was already in place, and while he says he enjoys it (and doesn't care too much about the well being of ducks or geese). He said that no animal should be harmed unnecessarily, though he admitted to not knowing much about how foie gras is produced. Like TK, he also doesn't think the government should get too deeply involved in legislating what we can and cannot eat. However, when I asked him how he would feel about seeing English Springer Spaniels on the menu (his dog Willy is about his favorite thing on earth) he had to admit that he would not like it and would not be in favor of that. So I don't know. Not a clear cut issue I guess (perhaps it would be for me if I knew more about it). Unfortunately for ducks and geese, they just don't have the personality of dogs or horses (for example). Personality counts. In a perfect world I would not want to see any animal suffer unnecessarily, but...I need eggs (for example) and don't want to pay 3x the price unless it's absolutely necessary.
 
tk59 said:
It may be dispicable to me or you but I don't know that it isn't just a product of the culture we chose to embrace and I didn't mean to duck the question. I don't have an answer. It doesn't change the fact that I don't want anybody telling me what I'm allowed to eat or otherwise infringing on my personal freedom, as you put it. Sorry.
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Completely understandable that you don't want other people telling you how you ought to live or eat, but having one's cake and eating it too is not often an option. Governmental paternalism is an unfortunate necessity in a country filled with imperfect people and even if some folks would be ok to live their lives without some regulatory body telling them what they can or cannot do, there are plenty of folks who need to be told.
 
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