ceramic rod bad rap

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Every once in a while, we actually have a breather between prep and class. When we do, that's when I take out the strop kit from my bag and go to town. Last week, after a particularly busy prep where I used four different knives, I took out the strops and did all but two knives in my kit. It was great. I love seeing the looks on the other chefs' faces when they check out the edge on one of my freshly stropped knives. That's a bit rare though. Usually, it's just my Mac ceramic and if the edges just aren't staying where they need to be, I'll pull out the strops and do a quick five minute session just to restore it, but when that has to happen, it's usually a sign that it's time for me to hit the stones.
 
panda said:
steel on ceramic rod, then strop on cardboard - quickest and easiest daily maintenance until next sharpening session which in pro kitchen seems an eternity because i never have the time nor the energy. you all know what i'm talking about, when you actually do have time, all you want to do is get everything done quick so that you can go home early or get out to the bars faster.
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Ummmm:O,why is it that us cooks like to go out after work,order pupu's & drink beer?I've never seen a strop in a kitchen,but a small portable strop could be useful.Now at home I use a stop quite a bit esp sharpening other's knives it leaves a highly polished cool looking edge.

Liked to soak my stone during the end of service & sharp my knives after service.Aways enjoyed sharpening,find it relaxing after putting out all those function sheets.No one ever bothered about,they are the tools of your trade.
 
I've had my Yusuke KS Clone for over 6 months now, and haven't sharpened it properly on the stones yet. I do this technique on other knives as well, and the results vary depending on maker and steel, but the Yusuke Swedish SS gives me the best results.

I've been using the MAC Black rod and Boron, ChrOx, & leather strops. On the rod I do 3 strokes each side edge leading heel to tip, 3 strokes each sides edge trailing tip to heel. Then 3-3 stropping strokes each side heel to tip, and 3-4 stropping strokes each side tip to heel. Deburr in champagne cork - deburring is a must.

For the rod I place the tip on the edge of my board and hold the rod horizontal, nearly parallel to the floor. I do heel-tip and tip-heel strokes to insure that I'm hitting the tip and heel of the blade evenly, as either the tip or heel is the first and last part to touch the surface.

The edge I get is very sharp - smooth with some bite. The rod alone leaves quite a bit of bite, and the strops smooth it out a lot. Deburring helps prolong the edge life.

Personally, I find this technique adequate for my needs, as the edge is really sharp and cuts well. It's not a replacement for proper sharpening on stones, but I do find that it greatly extends the time between sharpenings, thus extending the life of the knife.
 
mr drinky said:
Without a doubt you are correct...but bringing out the stones, soaking, and putting stuff away takes way longer and the wife hates me doing it in the kitchen. When I perma-soak them in the garage in the summer though it is no problem. It's all quick then -- but summer is only so long ;)

k.
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Splash n go, baby! Like kaleab, the G5k for touch-ups or G1k for somewhat more damaged edges works great. Takes a couple of minutes.
 
A couple further thoughts… steeling primarily realigns the edge, so repeated steeling actually weaken the edge over time, since it’s just bending the metal back and forth.

My thought behind steeling and then followed by stropping and deburring is that some of that weak metal is being removed in the process, thus creating a stronger – and sharper - edge than just steeling alone.

Still, it’s not cutting significant amounts of metal to create a new edge or revel fresh steel, so it’s really just a quick fix. The more I do this, the less and less the edge lasts each time.
 
mpukas said:
A couple further thoughts… steeling primarily realigns the edge, so repeated steeling actually weaken the edge over time, since it’s just bending the metal back and forth.

My thought behind steeling and then followed by stropping and deburring is that some of that weak metal is being removed in the process, thus creating a stronger – and sharper - edge than just steeling alone.

Still, it’s not cutting significant amounts of metal to create a new edge or revel fresh steel, so it’s really just a quick fix. The more I do this, the less and less the edge lasts each time.
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You're absolutely right. But don't make it sound all bad. Depending on the characteristics of your blade steel, it may be an advantage, so to speak. If a pro sharpens a Henckels every time it starts to feel less than super sharp, the knife will need some serious thinning in no time at all. Hell, they will need a new knife altogether in no time. On the other hand, if you steel your Heiji, you'll kill the knife even faster and you're steel rod will be shot to hell, too. I don't see anything wrong with people finding the ideal compromise for their own particular situation. It's when someone isn't taking full advantage of how thier knives were designed and made that it drives me knuts.
 
tk59 said:
...On the other hand, if you steel your Heiji, you'll kill the knife even faster and you're steel rod will be shot to hell, too...
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FWIW, I've done the same thing on my Heiji to see how it would work. It doesn't respond as well as the steel in the Yusuke, but still provides a sharper edge than before. Jon's probably cringing, scowling at me right now...
 
I leave a strop and permasoaking beston 500 bester1.2k and rika at work. End up using it more on the other guys knives but I like having them there the odd time I do need them.
 
I would say the Mac black is good for 58-61. White ceramics, maybe 58'ish....I wouldn't touch a Takeda to a rod, imho...
 
mpukas said:
FWIW, I've done the same thing on my Heiji to see how it would work. It doesn't respond as well as the steel in the Yusuke, but still provides a sharper edge than before. Jon's probably cringing, scowling at me right now...
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What kind of steel rod did you put your Heiji to?
 
When using a rod (well the ones we're likely to use anyway) there's nearly no steel removal and that's something to consider (same with using strops). I feel the best way for edge maintenance is what works for you, if it's a rod then that's OK by me.

Personally I use a ceramic rod for my German knives and strops for my Japanese ones, when they stop working I hit the stones.
 
I also remember my first J-knife outside of globals I ended up ripping the edge off the Tanaka santoku with a diamond blade. The Tanaka is considered 65 on the hardness scale and I couldn't even scratch it with the diamond rod, to try to get a edge back.

I have since fixed the edge and would love to try it with the ruby rod, but the only think I can say it it removes steel more than I would like.
 
I really like using the Idahone ceramic rod and have used it for over five years. If the knife is not shaving sharp, a few light passes usually does the trick, ,however it is a game of diminishing returns, eventually you need to get back to the stones. That being said I have bought some cheap ceramic rods at kitchen stores and they are just about useless.
 
Partly because of this thread and partly because I'm lazy/it's dead busy in work at present, I have been experimenting with my Mac black ceramic rod.

My working rotation at present is a 270 Kono HD, a 270 DT ITK and a 210 Rottman suji. I believe with stropping and how much I use them in work, for the Kono and the DT I can get really 2 weeks of optimal use with stropping and after that they really need sharpened. For the Rottman, I'd say I could go a month without any hassle whatsoever. So basically for the Kono and DT I have been using my Mac rod the last while when stropping has stopped working, and the results have been pretty good. With a few very very light touches, the edge is very good. I think that stropping after the rod definitely definitely definitely prolongs the times between using the rod, it makes the edges a little smoother and they last quite a bit longer. I have been using the rod on each knife only once or twice per day, but I think I am approaching the point of diminishing returns and they'll need taken to the stones again, I think by the end of this week the rod will be doing very little

So basically I kinda agree with Chris about rods not being all bad, and I think if you're careful they don't really have any negative affects. Saying that, I'd still prefer to just use the stones again, but time is not my friend at present. It feels like I'm wiping the dirty bits off my car with my sleeve every day rather than just washing it properly
 
OK so what are the conclusions >? Which is the better rod ? Thanks all for their contributions to this thread but, is there a solution or just preference >? I don't have the solution cause I'm the novice on this side of the knife but I know sharp from crap. :)
 
Conclusions: Use stones. If you don't want to do that all the time, use a rod (and/or a strop) in between stone sessions. For a coarser, more aggressive edge, use something like an Idahone (1k). For more refinement, use a MAC black rod (2k).
 
This means nothing, just in a posting mood, lol, but I was using a Idahone for a while, then dropped it and it broke. So went to stropping on a dry 1200k stone (at let i think its 1200k, its the white side of the takeda handheld) and had better and more consistent results on my CCK and a few white#2 knives, but better results on my ODC and French knives with a really really old Foster Bros. steel rod.
 
I use a couple of rods regularly. I have a home made borosilicate glass rod with that is only VERY slightly abrasive, that works quite well on anything less than 60-61 hrc, I generally use a couple of swipes of it before stropping. I also keep a cheap white ceramic rod from Ikea in my bag for emergencies - when I need an edge with heaps of bite, or when I need to touch up a workmates Victorinox in a hurry.

I think there's a place for them in a pro environment.
 
OK another question on rods... Is it best to use a few (3-5) swipes end down with same angle as stones or stropping motion? I'm just thinking but stropping motion on a maybe 2000 grit ceramic rod seems bout the same or better than what adams is talking about on the MAC.
 
I use the Idahone a lot and love it. And for those that didn't know it, the Idahone is rated 1200 ANSI which makes just under J3000. Three edge leading strokes as it starts to dull and my knife is back to razor sharp.
 
Stumblinman said:
OK another question on rods... Is it best to use a few (3-5) swipes end down with same angle as stones or stropping motion? I'm just thinking but stropping motion on a maybe 2000 grit ceramic rod seems bout the same or better than what adams is talking about on the MAC.
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i use the same motion to strop on a wetstone as i do on a honing rod and i have more consistent, quicker results on a wetstone, whether its 2k or 8k.
 
bahamaroot said:
I use the Idahone a lot and love it. And for those that didn't know it, the Idahone is rated 1200 ANSI which makes just under J3000. Three edge leading strokes as it starts to dull and my knife is back to razor sharp.
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dull to razor sharp in 3 strokes? on a honing rod? i seriously doubt that.
 
bahamaroot said:
I use the Idahone a lot and love it. And for those that didn't know it, the Idahone is rated 1200 ANSI which makes just under J3000. Three edge leading strokes as it starts to dull and my knife is back to razor sharp.
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Curious, where is this information located?
 
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