Charcuterie

[JohnnyChance]

Pink salt is worth adding to recipes like corned beef and bacon simply for the fact it helps keep the meat pinkish/reddish and not drab gray.

Salmon is super simple; 2 to 1 ratio of kosher salt to sugar plus whatever herbs, spices, etc you prefer. At work we do citrus (zest and juice of 2 each lemon, lime and orange for 1 side of salmon) and coriander. But whatever will work: dill, garlic, pepper, etc. Make enough cure to completely surround your piece of skinned salmon. A container slightly larger than the fish is best so you don't need too much cure to keep the salmon covered in cure at all time. A large ziploc also works. Leave it like that for 24-48 hours, depending on how thick your salmon is and how "rare" you like it. Rinse, pat dry, slice thin, enjoy.

 

[tkern]

Pink salt (instacure #1) helps with color but it does a lot with short term curing (2-4weeks). Long term curing, 4-whatever weeks, instacure #2 works great. Sodium nitrite (not nitrate) is the only thing that some use that doesn't really do a lot with flavor but more with color. It does do some protection against the bad bacteria but not enough (for me) to balance out the random cancer causing factor.

 

[Deckhand]

Thank you again for all the helpful comments.

 

[DWells]

This is a great website. Quite old-school, but a lot of good science here too.

From http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing:

Cure #1 (also known as Instacure #1, Prague Powder #1 or Pink Cure #1)
For any aspiring sausage maker it is a necessity to understand and know how to apply Cure #1 and Cure #2, as those two cures are used worldwide though under different names and with different proportions of nitrates and salt. Cure #1 is a mixture of 1 oz of sodium nitrite (6.25%) to 1 lb of salt. It must be used to cure all meats that will require smoking at low temperatures. It may be used to cure meats for fresh sausages (optional).

Cure #2 (also known as Instacure #2, Prague Powder #2 or Pink Cure #2)
Cure #2 is a mixture of 1 oz of sodium nitrite (6.25%) along with 0.64 oz of sodium Nitrate (4%) to 1 lb of salt. It can be compared to the time-releasing capsules used for treating colds. It must be used with any products that do not require cooking, smoking or refrigeration and is mainly used for products that will be air cured for a long time like country ham, salami, pepperoni, and other dry sausages. Both Cure #1 and Cure #2 contain a small amount of FDA approved red coloring agent that gives them a slight pink color thus eliminating any possible confusion with common salt and that is why they are sometimes called “pink“ curing salts. Cure #1 is not interchangeable with Cure #2 and vice versa.

Basically, it depends on your curing temperature (under 34* or over), and the length of time you intend to cure.

And there hasn't been conclusive research on the link of either to cancer. There was a study done with lab rats in the 80s where they fed them the sodium nitrite and nitrate equivalents of 100lbs of bacon a day, and what do you know, they got cancer. That said, industrial producers of cured meats over-utilize nitrates/nitrites and phosphates (which allow the meat to open its cell structure to take on more water) in an attempt for higher turnaround. So I'm not a big fan of industrially cured items.

Pink salt (instacure #1) helps with color but it does a lot with short term curing (2-4weeks). Long term curing, 4-whatever weeks, instacure #2 works great. Sodium nitrite (not nitrate) is the only thing that some use that doesn't really do a lot with flavor but more with color. It does do some protection against the bad bacteria but not enough (for me) to balance out the random cancer causing factor.

 

[DWells]

Didn't want any of that to come across as combative at all. Have fun curing!

Davis

 

[Deckhand]

Didn't want any of that to come across as combative at all. Have fun curing!

Davis

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the link. Always open to learning more.

 

[DWells]

Thanks for the welcome, glad to be here. I've been lurking for a few months, but have only posted a few times.

As for my credentials, I have been working in kitchens for 8 years (all kinds, but recently fine dining, farm-to-table). I recently apprenticed for 9 months at the butcher's shop previously mentioned in Marietta Ga. They do local, sustainably raised, whole-animal butchery, and selling fresh cuts, fresh, smoked, poached, and dry-cured sausages, as well as just about anything else under the sun.

 

[Deckhand]

Thanks for the welcome, glad to be here. I've been lurking for a few months, but have only posted a few times.

As for my credentials, I have been working in kitchens for 8 years (all kinds, but recently fine dining, farm-to-table). I recently apprenticed for 9 months at the butcher's shop previously mentioned in Marietta Ga. They do local, sustainably raised, whole-animal butchery, and selling fresh cuts, fresh, smoked, poached, and dry-cured sausages, as well as just about anything else under the sun.

Good stuff. Wish I lived closer I would stop by the butchery. This is a nice place. Lots of great people and info.

 

[markenki]

This is a great thread. I borrowed Ruhlmann and Polcyn's book Charcuterie from the library and will try doing this (pancetta? bacon?) for the first time in a week or two. Wish me luck!

 

[apicius9]

Thanks for the welcome, glad to be here. I've been lurking for a few months, but have only posted a few times.

As for my credentials, I have been working in kitchens for 8 years (all kinds, but recently fine dining, farm-to-table). I recently apprenticed for 9 months at the butcher's shop previously mentioned in Marietta Ga. They do local, sustainably raised, whole-animal butchery, and selling fresh cuts, fresh, smoked, poached, and dry-cured sausages, as well as just about anything else under the sun.

Welcome! Sounds like every butcher shop I grew up with in Germany. Ahh, the good times.... Even in the land of sausages, most of those butchers have been replaced by supermarkets selling industrial crap. In my hometown is a farmers market that also has a few butchers selling products, 4 carts next to each other. In front of one of them there is always a line. That's a young butcher who follows old local traditions. I once asked him what he does to his ham so that it tastes better than any other ham I could buy. His answer: "Nothing, absolutely nothing...". But sometimes he knows the names of the pigs before he slaughters them.

Stefan

 

[brainsausage]

Sodium nitrate is broken town into sodium nitrite(by beneficial bacteria), which in turn is broken down into nitric oxide, which if exposed to high heat( like its burnt...) can produce nitrosamines, which are thought to be cancerous. There are various means to avoid this(phosphates, citric acid), but as long as you don't burn your homemade bacon- you're all good. Eating high amounts of nitrates is actually poisonous. Nitrites/nitrates are beneficial in the sense that they stop botulism dead(literally), aid color retention, and add a singular flavor. Botulism is very scary stuff.
I spend most of my time curing and smoking meats at my restaurant, and I've taught the waitstaff this little tidbit when a customer complains that our charcuterie plate contains 'nitrates'(it doesn't actually as they've all been trickled down to nitric oxide, but whatever)- they're is more naturally occurring nitrates in an average bag of spinach, then there is in 20 pounds of sausage. Can you cure without? Yes. Should you? In my opinion no. There are many safety hurdles you have to build against foodborne pathogens when curing meat and making fermented sausages( hard salami and the like )- judicious use of salt, proper use of nitrates, encouraging beneficial bacteria(as they will compete, and ofttimes kill dangerous bacteria), lowering the Ph of the product, and last and most important- lowering the water content of the product-as in drying it. Water aids life, remove it and you can hold a protein almost indefinitely. It might not be that tasty, so finding a nice balance of all the above factors can be a little tricky, but well worth the effort.

 

[brainsausage]

Also, my bresaola came out wicked salty. Can't serve it as is, instead we are going to microplane it over some pasta and basically use it as beef-salt. I cured it for 2 weeks, maybe a shorter cure or a bigger diameter piece next time. Or both.

Are you measuring your salt at a set ratio? I usually do between 2.8-3% by weight of the protein and get favorable results. It's not really safe to go below 2%. At least that's what the books that the food scientists say anyways

 

[DWells]

Sodium nitrate is broken town into sodium nitrite(by beneficial bacteria), which in turn is broken down into nitric oxide, which if exposed to high heat( like its burnt...) can produce nitrosamines, which are thought to be cancerous. There are various means to avoid this(phosphates, citric acid), but as long as you don't burn your homemade bacon- you're all good. Eating high amounts of nitrates is actually poisonous. Nitrites/nitrates are beneficial in the sense that they stop botulism dead(literally), aid color retention, and add a singular flavor. Botulism is very scary stuff.
I spend most of my time curing and smoking meats at my restaurant, and I've taught the waitstaff this little tidbit when a customer complains that our charcuterie plate contains 'nitrates'(it doesn't actually as they've all been trickled down to nitric oxide, but whatever)- they're is more naturally occurring nitrates in an average bag of spinach, then there is in 20 pounds of sausage. Can you cure without? Yes. Should you? In my opinion no. There are many safety hurdles you have to build against foodborne pathogens when curing meat and making fermented sausages( hard salami and the like )- judicious use of salt, proper use of nitrates, encouraging beneficial bacteria(as they will compete, and ofttimes kill dangerous bacteria), lowering the Ph of the product, and last and most important- lowering the water content of the product-as in drying it. Water aids life, remove it and you can hold a protein almost indefinitely. It might not be that tasty, so finding a nice balance of all the above factors can be a little tricky, but well worth the effort.

+1. Very well said. I've had a few "uncured" products that were actually decent, but usually they are just pale substitutions for the real thing. Doing it right without specifically adding nitrites/nitrates via celery/asparagus juice or relying on naturally occurring nitrates in sea salt (very, very tricky) is hugely time intensive. Also, avoiding a green product from all the naturally sourced nitrates can give people fits.

 

[Mucho Bocho]

Absolutely could not agree more. Also understand that Rhulman's book is a charcutterie primer. I have it to and it turned me on to this world of aged meats. For anyone that wants to delve into cured sausages, large cut aged meats I have found Rytek Kutas good reference but my absolute standard is marvin Marinanski's book on Quality home meats http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426739/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


For recipes that are even better than the books see Len Poli's world

http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm

As i've posted before, its a fun hobby

 

[brainsausage]

Absolutely could not agree more. Also understand that Rhulman's book is a charcutterie primer. I have it to and it turned me on to this world of aged meats. For anyone that wants to delve into cured sausages, large cut aged meats I have found Rytek Kutas good reference but my absolute standard is marvin Marinanski's book on Quality home meats http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426739/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


For recipes that are even better than the books see Len Poli's world

http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm

As i've posted before, its a fun hobby

Nice looking meat Mucho! At some point this weekend I'll try and get some pics up of my drying room. It's pretty full of product right now, looks/smells great

 

[brainsausage]

+1. Very well said. I've had a few "uncured" products that were actually decent, but usually they are just pale substitutions for the real thing. Doing it right without specifically adding nitrites/nitrates via celery/asparagus juice or relying on naturally occurring nitrates in sea salt (very, very tricky) is hugely time intensive. Also, avoiding a green product from all the naturally sourced nitrates can give people fits.

It's just another case of people failing to do their homework, and relying on rumors instead... That and the fact that everything is cancer causing in the state of California. I don't know how anyone is still alive out there

 

[DWells]

Even though I live on east coast, my sister sent me some coppa from Santa Cruz. It was very well done, with the traditional nitrate/nitrite blend. I'll be honest, a few years ago, I tried to buy only un-cured bacon and ham. I was mainly hoping that the pork would be pasture-raised in some way, as those two things usually went hand in hand. Now I rarely buy many processed meats that I don't have a direct relationship with whoever made them (if I am not making them myself), and the farmer who raised the pork.

 

[brainsausage]

Even though I live on east coast, my sister sent me some coppa from Santa Cruz. It was very well done, with the traditional nitrate/nitrite blend. I'll be honest, a few years ago, I tried to buy only un-cured bacon and ham. I was mainly hoping that the pork would be pasture-raised in some way, as those two things usually went hand in hand. Now I rarely buy many processed meats that I don't have a direct relationship with whoever made them (if I am not making them myself), and the farmer who raised the pork.

I was just poking fun at the fact that California seems to be the first to villainize food, instead of teaching moderation. I actually plan to move out there at some point in the next few years. I've spent 30+ years in Maine, and the winters are starting to wear on me...

 

[Deckhand]

I was just poking fun at the fact that California seems to be the first to villainize food, instead of teaching moderation. I actually plan to move out there at some point in the next few years. I've spent 30+ years in Maine, and the winters are starting to wear on me...

Mayor Bloomberg in NY is banning any sugary drink over 16 o.z. It could be worse here in California. Maine is nice spent a summer striped bass fishing at old orchard beach, went to LL Bean, Rhode island jazz festival, i thought about moving there but like you said doubt I would enjoy a winter there.

 

[DWells]

I was just poking fun at the fact that California seems to be the first to villainize food, instead of teaching moderation. I actually plan to move out there at some point in the next few years. I've spent 30+ years in Maine, and the winters are starting to wear on me...

Agreed. The villainization of food is a major pet peeve of mine (most of the time, there are some genuinely bad-actors out there). It excuses a complete ignorance of how we should be eating (moderately).

I brought up the coppa to show that there seem to be enough sane people there to support such a shop. My sister tells me it was made by a salchicherro who owns a small shop, using local meats and traditional methods.

 

[brainsausage]

Agreed. The villainization of food is a major pet peeve of mine (most of the time, there are some genuinely bad-actors out there). It excuses a complete ignorance of how we should be eating (moderately).

I brought up the coppa to show that there seem to be enough sane people there to support such a shop. My sister tells me it was made by a salchicherro who owns a small shop, using local meats and traditional methods.

That's my endgame, to own a traditional deli that offers charcuterie and meats from mine and other local farms, and big messy sandwiches. Sandwiches that run down your arm while your eating em

 

[GlassEye]

That's my endgame, to own a traditional deli that offers charcuterie and meats from mine and other local farms, and big messy sandwiches. Sandwiches that run down your arm while your eating em

If this wonderful deli of yours is in Maine, I will definitely be stopping by. I try to make it up there at least once a year.

 

[Duckfat]

That's my endgame, to own a traditional deli that offers charcuterie and meats from mine and other local farms, and big messy sandwiches. Sandwiches that run down your arm while your eating em

Portland seems like a great place for a deli like that.

Dave

 

[brainsausage]

If this wonderful deli of yours is in Maine, I will definitely be stopping by. I try to make it up there at least once a year.

Stop by my current gig next time you're up here: local188.com

 

[brainsausage]

Portland seems like a great place for a deli like that.

Dave

Are you from these here parts?

 

[GlassEye]

Stop by my current gig next time you're up here: local188.com

I'll be sure to let you know next time I am in the area.

 

[Duckfat]

Are you from these here parts?

No I'm in Mi but we have friends in Kennebunk so we've been there several times.

Dave

 

[brainsausage]

No I'm in Mi but we have friends in Kennebunk so we've been there several times.

Dave

I was curious, cuz one of the best places for fries in town is a place called Duckfat...

 

[GlassEye]

I was curious, cuz one of the best places for fries in town is a place called Duckfat...

I made that same association as well.

 

[brainsausage]

I made that same association as well.

Have you checked out Nosh? They opened a couple years ago, and have quite possibly the best fries I've yet to stuff in my face.