Chinese cleavers- lend me your knowledge.

[Noodle Soup]

I have one pretty close to the top left hand one I bought from the maker in a little metal working shop never Yangshuo. Good all purpose chopper I tend to drag out when there is stock to make.

 

[NO ChoP!]

I have bought both Ching Kee Lee and Three Rams brand carbon Chinese cleavers via Ebay for far less then CCK. Unfortunately, the popularity of CCK has shot a once $25 cleaver to $60+. Also, for stainless, Shibazi is hard to beat.

 

[Noodle Soup]

I'm a fan of Shibazi too. They offer all levels of cleavers from home use to serious professional. Shibazi is one brand I found in the shops scattered in land around China. CCK I've never saw anyplace but on the web and here in the U.S.

 

[fatboylim]

Generally there are 3 types of cleaver:
1. thin and light slicer ~300g (e.g. CCK 1303) for boneless protein and vegetables
2. general chopper for small bones, protein and veg 400g (e.g. CCK 1103), and
3. Bone chopper +550g. Everything big.

Generally worth experimenting with option 1, then progress to option 2 if you like clravers. Option 3 really requires a thick Butchers block to get full value.

The Japanese made Chinese cleavers will generally be option 2 size and slightly heavier if made by high end makers.

 

[Noodle Soup]

I've been playing with a Sugimoto No. 7 that the dealers refer to as a general purpose cleaver. So far it has held up to chopping chicken bones. It would be a lot of money to ding up on poultry bones so I hope that continues.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

I can't say there isn't a chef in some fancy Beijing place using a Japanese blade but he would be a minority. High end in China is way different than Japan. When I was in Chengdu my cooking instructor sent me to a shop he said was were the local pros shopped. Most of their cleavers ran in the $20-$40 range. A local home use model was more in the $10.00 or less range. Knife skills come before high end knives in that part of the world.
My instructor also told me he had a buddy that was cooking in Chinese restaurant in Japan. The buddy had been telling him about the super cleavers made in Japan but there was no way he would believe anyone would pay that much for one.

Reminds me of the story of the butcher cutting an ox for the king!

 

[Sillywizard]

I agree fully with XooMG as well.
Once you do get your Chinese slicer, put away all your other knives except for your paring knives, and only use the cleaver for everything! Do this for a month to become well acquainted with your new knife before reintroducing your other knives into the rotation. This is to force you to adapt and give the cleaver a fair chance. It's a wonderful tool, the height is really an advantage, particularly in prepping vegetables!

 

[fatboylim]

I agree fully with XooMG as well.
Once you do get your Chinese slicer, put away all your other knives except for your paring knives, and only use the cleaver for everything! Do this for a month to become well acquainted with your new knife before reintroducing your other knives into the rotation. This is to force you to adapt and give the cleaver a fair chance. It's a wonderful tool, the height is really an advantage, particularly in prepping vegetables!

+1 and to XooMG +1

 

[Nemo]

Yeah, I can imagine it might need a bit of technique adjustment.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

I haven't used a gyuto in a week. I'm finding the draw slice to be very good with this knife, and that's not a motion I was previously accustomed to using. Gotta watch some videos of Chinese chefs cooking with them.

 

[doudou]

well, As chinese and a big fan of Chinese Clevers, I must point out that , in China we have multipal models of the kitchen knives shares different profile.

here we have 2 Major type are made from 2 big provide which famours for its dilicious food: Sichuan and Guangdong.

Sichuang province: their knives have some kind of German chef's knive style, big curve bely. very efficent for rocking and chopping. there're several famous brands: Deng's and Lipeide shines much more than others IMHO. Both brand have carbon version and the material is something like 1055 and the HRC would be like 56-58. Deng's Stainless verion use 913(chinese version of AUS10) steel which can holds a very steep edge, but the blade edge only have like 1 inch from the blade and the rest is soft 304or 310. Lipeide is famouse for this forging process and their stainless knife use a whole 815(chinese version of AUS8) steel, their knives have perfect convex edge. if you a rock profomer, you will have big fan by using this 2 brands.

Guangdong province: Unlike Sichuan province, the knives made from this province have way much more flat bely. and the profile is almost straight. Shibazi is the biggest knive MFG is China and their knives have very standard profile, use 713 or 813 for their chef's line and have very good wood handle. the problem is their knives might have QC problem and you may find their blade is not perfectly staight, I have 2 knives have the same problem, but not a problem by using them. Shibazi's materil is something like Deng's core steel wides is only 1 inch from the blade with Sanmai structure. CCK is orginaly made from HK, however with growing labor cost, they chose some OEM to made of their knives and their material is unknown. CCK's Pro lines is for pro chefs, and if you are a home cook ,K19XX series if perfect for you.

For chinese knives , we classify them by thickness of the spine/length/weight.

we have 300g slicing knives with thin spine and works like gyuto

500g heavy knives works like deba. and also a lot of veriations like Sang Dao in Guangdong province for ultra detial work with very big blade or something like Yusheng Dao like Yanagiba to cut ultra thin fish.

In China, our Pro chef's do not focus on the knives but more on the cutting skills , some chef can cut Toufu like hair and make dishes...LOL

 

[GorillaGrunt]

How are the "Double Lions" and "Double Swords" brands compared to, e.g., Shibazi"

 

[Noodle Soup]

I have all three. I prefer Shibazi by a very small margin but I haven't really found a big difference between them.

 

[foody518]

I have all three. I prefer Shibazi by a very small margin but I haven't really found a big difference between them.

Was wondering about this as well, so thank you. Good to know

 

[Choppin]

Any recommendations for an inexpensive Chinese cleaver, carbon, 180-200mm, in the "thin and light" category? Preferably with a flatter profile.

 

[loong]

you can try Sugimoto #30, I use Sugimoto OMS # 7, which is the best cleaver i have used so far.

 

[mise_en_place]

Any recommendations for an inexpensive Chinese cleaver, carbon, 180-200mm, in the "thin and light" category? Preferably with a flatter profile.

Have you ever used a cleaver before? Before I used them (and they're what I mostly use these days), I thought I would prefer a flatter profile. While I don't like them to be too round, I think they're continuously curved for a reason-- because it works with the technique.

Also, how inexpensive is inexpensive? Take a look at Shibazi cleavers, regardless.

Edit: typo

 

[Choppin]

Have you ever used a cleaver before? Before I used them (and they're what I mostly use these days), I thought I would prefer a flatter profile. While I don't like them to be too round, I think they're continuously curved for a reason-- because it works with the technique.

Also, how inexpensive is inexpensive? Take a look at Shibazi cleavers, regardless.

Edit: typo

I'm new to cleavers, this would be my first one. I was looking for a flatter one because I'm used to nakiris and they are usually flatter that the cleavers I see around (at least my nakiris are). But you have a good point - different technique, different profile.

Will take a look at Shibazi

Inexpensive - preferably under US$50, but cheaper the better.

Thank!

@loong thank's!

 

[Choppin]

Also, are there any significant difference between vintage cleavers - Bernal comes up with some once in a while - and new ones? In terms of construction, profile, price-to-quality ratio, etc

 

[mise_en_place]

Also, are there any significant difference between vintage cleavers - Bernal comes up with some once in a while - and new ones? In terms of construction, profile, price-to-quality ratio, etc

I think a lot of the cleavers (especially vintage) you find on that site are Western meat cleavers. Whole different ballgame from Chinese cleavers.

 

[Choppin]

I think a lot of the cleavers (especially vintage) you find on that site are Western meat cleavers. Whole different ballgame from Chinese cleavers.

They offer Chinese cleavers as well (Three Sheep and Ho Ching Kee Lee are some of the makers). I was curious is there's anything about them that makes them more attractive then the new ones (in the same price range), other than collectible value

 

[loong]

Also, are there any significant difference between vintage cleavers - Bernal comes up with some once in a while - and new ones? In terms of construction, profile, price-to-quality ratio, etc

No difference in performance. You an also find a Chinese cleaver in such vintage look. My grandma use one cleaver like that.

 

[WOK-a-holic]

Read post by Andy 777 .A discourse and why I love Chinese cleavers.

go carbon steel or go home. the thinner the blade the better.

SUIEN vc Cleaver is excellent .you can buy at www.Japanesechefknives.com $160 shipped.

 

[WOK-a-holic]

The biggest thing for me is radious of the blade. If it's not nearly flat it's unusable for me. Nothing is more disappointing than finding your cleaver accordions just about everything after paying big money for it.

I agree flattered is better blade only needs the slightest possible Arc.

 

[WOK-a-holic]

And I totally disagree. A cleaver needs some rocker in the edge to be a good general purpose blade. I have used plenty of both to come to that conclusion. I have a heavy, very straight edged model from Yangshuo I use for dicing meat but I have never found it to be useful for much else.

If you want belly ,German made Chef's knives offer that.

a flatter profile and thinness of blade is what separates a Chinese Cleaver from the rest.

I realized that a lot of people in China only own one knife, and they might prefer a little bit more Arc to Blade profile ,because they use that blade for every single task .

 

[Noodle Soup]

Ultra thin blades are not that popular in the parts of China I've been in. They tend to use an all-purpose weight knife that can stand up to poultry, waterfowl, large fish and other light bone chopping. They also enjoy dishes prepared with the meat still on the bone chopped up into bite sizes chunks a lot more that westerners. If I chop a chicken that way here at home everyone comes un-glued about finding bones in their food.

 

[XooMG]

I cook mostly vegetarian and the ultra thins have some advantages in that sphere. Sadly I never got into the breakdown of animals with a Chinese knife, though I think a more robust blade than what I normally use would be wise, if I were using just one knife (quite a few cooks use at least two).

Belly is something people disagree on, and I see no reason to be overconfident in my own preferences or in my very limited experience with more heterogeneous market than many claim.

 

[Noodle Soup]

This is a good example of how everyday cleavers are used in China. Duck chopped up for something I don't remember but I know we started with a live one. Bone in is normal. The instructor bought a dozen of these cleavers in the market earlier in the day. I didn't think it was heavy enough for bone chopping but he seemed to know better.

 

[tsuriru]

View attachment 36217

This is a good example of how everyday cleavers are used in China. Duck chopped up for something I don't remember but I know we started with a live one. Bone in is normal. The instructor bought a dozen of these cleavers in the market earlier in the day. I didn't think it was heavy enough for bone chopping but he seemed to know better.

Im sorry to sway off topic for a second, but....That is a very impressive cutting surface! could you say a few words about it?

 

[Noodle Soup]

It was the standard cutting board at the Yangshuo School of Cooking is about all I can tell you about it. Sorry.