Employment Problems

[ThEoRy]

I know it's not a black and white issue. There are a lot of grey areas and everyone's situation is different. I'm not one to paint an entire people with one broad stroke either so don't get me wrong. I've never had a problem with anyone's race. It's not about that. I've seen this issue first hand many times however.

Being offered 5 dollars less an hour than I used to make on a job interview for the same company I previously worked for at the original higher rate because, "Well Gerrardo has been here for 6 years and only makes $9.50 so we can't really bring you in any higher than $10." I asked, "Is this a joke or something? Did Darryl put you up to this?" "No, we called Darryl though and he did say you were the man over there. That's why we'd like to bring you in but I just can't offer you more than $10." I replied, "I made $15 over there and you know I'm worth it." He say's, " "Well if the other cooks ever found out, they're all related so they'd probably all quit at once." I'm thinking, how stupid is this guy, he's setting himself up for failure and he knows it! Now mind you, I have never told any co worker or subordinate how much I make and never will. The only people who know is the guy who hires me and the one who signs the check or processes it. When I explained this to him, I could tell that he just wouldn't budge. Not even a freaking dollar. I was hurting for work too and was willing to take far less than my worth just to have something. But no. Not even a dollar more.

I thanked him for the "offer" but respectfully declined. I then discussed his "they all quit at once" situation and he admitted that it wasn't a good idea to have all his eggs in one basket but, "They all work for nothing" was basically the gist. "Well, call me if they ever do or you need a manager", I said.

About 6 months later, day after Valentine's, their busiest night of the year, guess who calls me up out of the blue? "Halfway through they got in the weeds, just got pissed and left!" I already found something much better by then so I just laughed. "I told you man, shoulda just hired me back then. I already have something good now so good luck cleaning up that mess"

Things worked out for me in the end anyway but it was so defeating being rejected time and again because I'm "too skilled" and "overqualified" for the job.

I'll hire anyone if they are willing to work. I don't care what race, religion or nationality you are. In fact my kitchen is full of Ecuadorians, Dominicans, Jamaicans, Eastern Europeans and Mexicans or whatever else we have. But you have to have legal working papers. No papers, no job. Sorry but that's just the way it is. What's right is right. As an American we all have to do our part and support American and legalized workers.

 

[Eamon Burke]

:goodpost:

I've lived this many times. Hell, I have been on both sides of that conversation three times in the past 2 months.

 

[memorael]

I know it's not a black and white issue. There are a lot of grey areas and everyone's situation is different. I'm not one to paint an entire people with one broad stroke either so don't get me wrong. I've never had a problem with anyone's race. It's not about that. I've seen this issue first hand many times however.

Being offered 5 dollars less an hour than I used to make on a job interview for the same company I previously worked for at the original higher rate because, "Well Gerrardo has been here for 6 years and only makes $9.50 so we can't really bring you in any higher than $10." I asked, "Is this a joke or something? Did Darryl put you up to this?" "No, we called Darryl though and he did say you were the man over there. That's why we'd like to bring you in but I just can't offer you more than $10." I replied, "I made $15 over there and you know I'm worth it." He say's, " "Well if the other cooks ever found out, they're all related so they'd probably all quit at once." I'm thinking, how stupid is this guy, he's setting himself up for failure and he knows it! Now mind you, I have never told any co worker or subordinate how much I make and never will. The only people who know is the guy who hires me and the one who signs the check or processes it. When I explained this to him, I could tell that he just wouldn't budge. Not even a freaking dollar. I was hurting for work too and was willing to take far less than my worth just to have something. But no. Not even a dollar more.

I thanked him for the "offer" but respectfully declined. I then discussed his "they all quit at once" situation and he admitted that it wasn't a good idea to have all his eggs in one basket but, "They all work for nothing" was basically the gist. "Well, call me if they ever do or you need a manager", I said.

About 6 months later, day after Valentine's, their busiest night of the year, guess who calls me up out of the blue? "Halfway through they got in the weeds, just got pissed and left!" I already found something much better by then so I just laughed. "I told you man, shoulda just hired me back then. I already have something good now so good luck cleaning up that mess"

Things worked out for me in the end anyway but it was so defeating being rejected time and again because I'm "too skilled" and "overqualified" for the job.

I'll hire anyone if they are willing to work. I don't care what race, religion or nationality you are. In fact my kitchen is full of Ecuadorians, Dominicans, Jamaicans, Eastern Europeans and Mexicans or whatever else we have. But you have to have legal working papers. No papers, no job. Sorry but that's just the way it is. What's right is right. As an American we all have to do our part and support American and legalized workers.

Two sides to every coin, I am sure there are some jobs that some people just won't do and we could blame it on either side all day and not be wrong a single time. The solution lies in making sure that no one hires any illegals and when some people just won't do some jobs (like the farm stuff, I know for a fact that in San Diego farmers were offering up to 15 dllrs an hour, which I thought was a lot, and people wouldn't take the job. All the Mexicans working there had been deported a few months ago and the farms were left without employees.

So there is truth to both sides of the story, I still think however that the biggest fault here is that of people that hire illegals for a lesser pay. If no one would hire them they would just stop coming since there is no jobs being offered. So I salute you for not hiring anyone without legal working status, just make sure it isn't a fake SS# or whatever too or your just as guilty as the ones hiring for less.

 

[ajhuff]

I never blame the illegal alien for working. I blame the bastard who hired the illegal alien. And what really irks me is that Guy that hires illegals usually is the ultra conservative type who supports stricter immigration. I.e. a lying two faced hypocrite. I've known too many like that.

-AJ

 

[quantumcloud509]

Hi Dave. I have a small business and have success in hiring part-time help using Craig's List. I only consider those who post CV's which in your case would include woodworking background. Hope that helps and good luck!

Uuu uuu uuu!! Over here, over here!

Heck, I work at a catering company and a college...we can't even find a good dishwasher!

Its because of high un employment...good workers are the only ones with jobs, and they are being saddled with doing everything, while all the suckfish are trying their hand at something new.

Plus everyone assumes that, worst case scenario, someone else will take care of them.

Dishwashers are hardest ones to find!

its funny, but i know quite a few people who keep saying to me that they wont take a job that pays less than their unemployment so they arent looking for jobs... weirds me out

Yeah two of my lazy ass friends are doing this. Its annoying as hell.

Yeah, it's not really a concrete comparison. We take home different amounts, and can buy different things with that money.

I worked a sushi bar, and got paid a flat salary, working 65 hours a week, my wife and daughter were at home(then only one daughter). I could barely cover my bills, and our one luxury was a Netflix account. We never ate out, we didn't go on a single date, I didn't even purchase a pair of shoes. I got 2 knives and a stone with my income tax return that year.

Meanwhile, the guy in the back that crept across the border got paid under the table, and was being paid out 60% of what I was. But in order to keep him there, the boss used their old, paid off house to shelter their under the table workers, and drove them to work in a van in the morning. So he had no rent, no car insurance/repairs/payments, no gas, no food, no electric bill, and no taxes. He sent some of his money back to family in Mexico, where a liver operation to save his father's life cost him what he spent on beer in a month--$700usd.

He tried to tell me one day that I made more money because I was a sushi chef. I then compared paychecks, asked about his bills and how much the exchange rate to mexico was, and what that could buy back home. The end result? He worked one less day a week than I did, and got 212% more than I got paid. It's not my boss' fault, or his. Nobody's scheming this thing out, it's just the end result of a backward system.


And as far as illegal immigrants working hard--you bet! If you walked 1200 miles through Mexico/Central America, got raped, robbed, and beaten a few times, thrown off the roof of a train, left to die of thirst in the desert by a coyote, snuck past a few dozen varieties of armed law enforcement, faced drug cartels and murdering thugs, and lived a double life in a foreign land to feed your family in Guatemala--yeah, you're probably a go-getter.

There is an implication, however, that it is morally acceptable to pay someone however little they are willing to take to do a job. If an out of work roofer comes to you and says "My family has just enough money to buy food, and used clothing to send our children to school, but we can't make rent this month. I will re-roof your house, I can tell it needs it. You pay materials, and I will do the job for $400 because it will take 2 weeks and that is what I need to cover rent at the end of the month." He may be willing to do anything for his family, and might be grateful and happy to do it. But that doesn't make it right.


It may seem a bit fftopic: and I hope nobody's offended by it. But it is the heart of the issue--you know, in Georgia, they shooed illegal immigrants off the farms, and now nobody is doing the work. They either can't hack the work, or they aren't willing to do it. Don't try to tell me that there is something most Americans wouldn't do for the right price--and farm work isn't even morally objectionable! They just said "I could go out and break my back again for another $50 for the day. All I want to do is sleep, the work is exhausting. I got paid for 2 weeks, now I have $600, I'd lose $50 of it to not go to work today". So they don't go--it isn't worth it. Get them paid so that they go out and buy a home, and a car, and start a family...they aren't about to let that go for the luxury of a day's rest.

Thats one hell of a post reply, if ive ever read one.

 

[quantumcloud509]

OOh yeah, I also agree with going to a finish carpenter and asking them. I kinda miss that line of work.

 

[apicius9]

If I don't have a job by August I will probably work for a bed and food

Stefan

 

[ThEoRy]

If I don't have a job by August I will probably work for a bed and food

Stefan

You will work for wood and handle materials and like it!! :lol2:

 

[Tristan]

I think this is a powderkeg, but my 2 cents is that I find the entire idea of unemployment benefits weird. Guess it is an alien concept where I was brought up. Here, you do your share, however best you can, for whatever they will pay you to do it for and you lived your life. It is amazing how much knowing that nobody got your back pushed you forward to work harder to get what you need. Education also levels out the playing field for the average all the way to the top 10%. Not that it doesn't have its own problems, we face similar competition from neighbour countries too, but people who are able can't get away with just waiting for handouts.

Social benefits for the handicapped and the elderly and infirm are a different thing - but even then, it was mostly subsistence level payouts.

 

[mhlee]

its funny, but i know quite a few people who keep saying to me that they wont take a job that pays less than their unemployment so they arent looking for jobs... weirds me out

I can understand not taking a job that pays less than unemployment, because that would also mean that you would be making less than unemployment and having less time to look for a better paying job. When I got laid off, looking for a job WAS a job. 8+ hours a day LOOKING for jobs, revising my resume, sending personalized letters, calling/meeting with headhunters, getting on the phone with contacts, etc.

But not looking at all???!!! You have to apply for jobs in CA in order to keep your unemployment benefits.

 

[UCChemE05]

David, I would suggest reaching out to your local & regional woodworking clubs. You will be able to find some excellent, hardworking craftsmen. Between the people in the club and their friends who are at least decent woodworkers, there must be at least a small number of people who are close looking for work (even retired guys looking for sometime to fill part of their days).

If you do contract with a local cabinet or wordworking shop to provide you intermediate or final product, you'll want to make sure you have a clad contract that they cannot sell similar products to yours, particularly if you need to train them on the methods you've perfected to make your product one of the best.

Good luck!

 

[mr drinky]

In economics there is this concept called 'adverse selection'. Essentially in the job market this means that good workers are actually working and employers will pay to retain them. So if you are a good worker you should (in theory) be working and all those people who are unemployed and applying are actually 'lemons'. Unfortunately, once you enter the unemployed ranks, you are 'marked' as a lemon even if that isn't the case. It is the same reason there is a much higher proportion of lemon cars in the used car market than should normally occur in the general 'car' population.

And it is the same thing that happens when you offer a great health care plan at work. The adverse selection process means that sick workers or people who have ill family members tend to apply more. So by offering a great health plan, you might actually have a bad result and have more sick days taken by workers. So if you have a good health plan and hire someone who is unemployed, you are more likely to get a sickly bad worker. Of course this doesn't always or often happen, but it can.

So the key is to hire someone who is already working at another job, but in tight job markets this means you are going to have to pay more.

k.

 

[bprescot]

So the key is to hire someone who is already working at another job...

I remember when I was looking for a job down in this area, often as not the first question I would be asked was "Are you currently employed?" I don't know if anyone had the balls to come out and say it, but I got the definite feeling that certain companies were not interested in anyone that was currently unemployed. In a few months I'll get to see if that's changed at all since we'll be moving up to NYC area.

 

[mano]

For years I used to think it was difficult to find a good boss. When I became one it became difficult to find a good employee.

Finding people who take pride in what they do and who follow the simple Golden Rule is not easy. When I hire my grown kids to help out I expect the same from them as anyone else. They're out of the house and I'm tapping the 16 year-old boy across the street who has a phenomenal work ethic. I've watched him for years and his dad is the same way. Wish there were more out there like him.

 

[DWSmith]

I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

 

[Chifunda]

I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Good luck with the cortisone injections. They helped my back quite a bit.:thumbsup:

 

[Deckhand]

I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Hope you feel better, and your helper works out.

 

[kalaeb]

I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Sometimes its better to get to newbies. Then you can train them any way you want without having to break bad habits first. It can take a little longer, but wil be rewarding in the end.

 

[Schtoo]

I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work.

Good to hear you got something worked out.

What might be worthwhile is seeking out older, retired folks who've either been cabinet makers/carpenters or have taken up the hobby since retiring.

Tell them what you need, give them a time frame how much you'll give them per board or whatever. Make sure it's an honest, fair rate but not so much work that it's going to be a full time job for them. If there's a particular way you want the boards made, explain that and make sure they stick to it.

They do something like that here, except it's officially organized. You'll see what they call the 'silver service' doing yard work, general laboring or whatever. I think they factor in you get a % of an able bodied worker, and you pay accordingly. It keeps the older folks busy and gives them some pocket money and they can work as often as they want. You can't contract them for proper, permanent work, but if you've got to load or unload a shipping container, clean up a yard, general unskilled work, then they're ideal.

And if they're older, retired folks and you have a few of them it'd not be something you need to sort out when you need the help (and are possibly unable to find the time or the person to plug the hole), and it would be instant help when you need it, but only when you need it.

Me, I got help coming in a week and a half. We shall see if she works out or not.

(But she'll be very, very distracting and a bit of a slave driver I think...)

Stu.

 

[pumbaa]

Tell me about it. I'm looking for a grill cook now and after wading through all the jokers I finally find an applicant I feel is worth an interview and he no shows on me today! Go figure. You need work. I may offer you a position. WHA HAPPEN YOU GUY!!

If I was in NY/NJ I would take it, I would love to work with you.

 

[ThEoRy]

If I was in NY/NJ I would take it, I would love to work with you.

You say that now, later you're all, "Rick's an assh0le!!......






but I learned a lot though.."

 

[pumbaa]

******* I can take, and trust me if I am learning nothing else will bother me.

 

[ThEoRy]

I gave a guy a working interview last week and he passed the test so I finally hired someone to fill the spot. Today was his first day to report for work and guess what? No call no show. You have got to be kidding me!

So now I've just promoted my "part timer" (55 hrs a week) to the full time grill position. He's a bit of a youngling project but I can't pass him up for the job a second time or he would eventually leave. It's only right that he gets his shot at it. He's proven himself so far but this is a whole new ball game. I hope he gets it down quick too as Easter Sunday is fast approaching and that one's been known to do a number on the grill guy over the years.

Fingers crossed!

 

[pumbaa]

I take an ass whopping on the grill station since it is also our fry station. Well is until I start the Pastry chef job in April. Temps is what will get you in trouble quick I have found. If you keep on top of your drops and pick ups and dont have to recook you are golden but once you mess up 1 temp it is usually a downward spiral.