Espresso nerds in the house?

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Most home users are never going to wear out their burrs. Regardless, cheaper plain steel burrs are usually less than $50 to replace. I have SSP red speeds which are rated for like 5000kg I believe? It's more of a worry for cafes. SSP resharpens burrs which is cool.

I just calculated, if a cafe does 300, 18g double shots a day (not sure how accurate that would be, I assume a pretty busy cafe), they would wear through those burrs in 925 days, so for sure something to consider, although in the long run, not a big problem for a few hundred bucks.

The biggest benefit would probably be a larger scale operation selling pre-ground coffee.
same here SSP red speed, and they'll last me a lifetime. Most shop grinders that I refurbished had badly worn burrs (aside from being caked with horrible dark roast gunk), as if most shops never ever look after their grinders.
 
On an entirely different topic: who has heard of quakers? Am I dumb for never hearing about these? I've been in the coffee hobby for YEARS and this is the first time I've read about them. And after reading about them, they're EVERYWHERE. Even in the high end coffee. I was able to pick out several from an 19g dose this morning. And sure enough! Crush them up, take a whiff... peanuts! In my citrusy, floral Ethiopian?! Ahhh hell no!

Anyway. I was kind of blown away. But then again maybe I'm totally out of the loop and this has been common knowledge since the dawn of time.

I have never heard that term before today, but have seen a few. I just thought they were beans that didn’t get roasted as much (under done, if you will.) and chalked it up to normal variance.

Thanks to you I’ll be sure to look for, and remove them, from now on!
 
guys, since I had a double caffe at a road side cafe in Italy where a tiny lady behind the counter was slamming out 4 espresso's a minute without even tamping I stopped fuzzing about puck prep...IMHO it;s WAY overrated and perhaps at best a way to let the OCD out. BTW, the software was some regular big brand bled with plenty Robusta in it.....

;-)
This confuses me. I did not get my espresso flavor locked in until I got the puck right. The reason seemed obvious -- water under pressure finds its own path, and if you have a puck in which there's a large area of resistance, and a small area of little resistance, then what you'll get is a pull mostly consisting of brewing the small area, and wasting the rest. So you have to make it uniform.

I guess I can see how if you didn't tamp, you'd still have uniformity, at a lower back-pressure. What I can't do is get from there to "puck prep is WAY overrated." Seems more as though the lesson is "no tamp works too." Tamping but not achieving uniform back pressure still would be a problem, therefore if you're going to tamp at all, you had better fuss a bit to get your routine right.

Is that wrong? Am I missing something about your lesson?
 
Yeah, when it comes to espresso, I'm of the school of thought that Hoffmann articulated - I want consistent and excellent, but with a minimum of faff. I'm not going to go chasing that 3% improvement if it means 100% more hoops to jump through.

That said, weighing (both dose and extraction) and WDT have been, by a large margin, the biggest bang for the buck in resultant improvements, so that's faff that I can live with, though I'd be hard-pressed to add to the process at this time.
 
This confuses me. I did not get my espresso flavor locked in until I got the puck right. The reason seemed obvious -- water under pressure finds its own path, and if you have a puck in which there's a large area of resistance, and a small area of little resistance, then what you'll get is a pull mostly consisting of brewing the small area, and wasting the rest. So you have to make it uniform.

I guess I can see how if you didn't tamp, you'd still have uniformity, at a lower back-pressure. What I can't do is get from there to "puck prep is WAY overrated." Seems more as though the lesson is "no tamp works too." Tamping but not achieving uniform back pressure still would be a problem, therefore if you're going to tamp at all, you had better fuss a bit to get your routine right.

Is that wrong? Am I missing something about your lesson?
there is no lesseon other than that there are many ways to skin a cat ;-)

puck prep IMHO is the singlemost overrated part of making espresso....great software, a great grinder, someone who understands the process and a reasonable machine are enough.
Tamping? enough is enough, and anything you add may take away more than that it adds.
 
Anyone have any experience with the Lynn HG prime or the helor 106? Trying to decide between them. I’m enjoying manual grinding, and I feel like I might be able to land some shurikones eventually.

Since the argos doesn’t have a pump it’ll be nice to avoid motors in my grinders until I’m eventually at a spot where I can get two phase power for a big boy machine like a nurri
 
Anyone have any experience with the Lynn HG prime or the helor 106? Trying to decide between them. I’m enjoying manual grinding, and I feel like I might be able to land some shurikones eventually.

Since the argos doesn’t have a pump it’ll be nice to avoid motors in my grinders until I’m eventually at a spot where I can get two phase power for a big boy machine like a nurri
I have the Craig Lynn HG Prime and love it. Part of the reason I selected my setup was noise - the loudest part of my espresso routine is the cracking of the beans during grind. As long as you keep the counter and the rubber pad on the bottom clean it will glue itself to solid stone-type counter and is very solid. I can grind medium to darker roasts one handed. Light roasts at finer settings benefit from using both hands but is still easy and quick. Alignment out of the box was great and I never felt it needed tweaking. I have noticed that as I've broken in the burrs more and more that grind uniformity has increased. I'd definitely suggest blowing through 2-5lbs of instant rice and a lb or so of coffee right at the start to get the burrs decently seasoned.

I find these big conical burr sets to be ideal for making the type of espresso I like to drink. Good body and balance with enough clarity in the cup to bring out the quality of good light roast beans. I have no problems dialing in espresso and have never found myself cursing the stepped grind settings, which is a frequent criticism. There is usually a range of 3-6 settings that pull quite well for me, so relatively forgiving overall. I find repeatability excellent when switching back and forth. I have extensive shot notes and when trying a new coffee I typically can look back and find what setting worked for a similar bean and the past and starting there usually results in a decent at worst pull from shot 1. Retention with RDT is functionally zero. I measure, spritz, grind, shake, tamp and pull. I can do that in less than 90s these days - very easy, minimally fussy workflow.

Visually, I find the particle consistency is maximized in the espresso range. While I have brewed absolutely delightful pour overs and Chemexes with this grinder, the grind is noticeably less uniform than a great flat burr at these larger grind sizes. For V60 its not uncommon for the coffee bed to look slightly muddy after draw down. The cups are still excellent, but maybe not quite as precise and clear as they would be with a really good flat.

I have no regrets and would recommend it to anyone looking for a top-end manual espresso grinder. It's quiet, easy to use, and produces a great cup.
 
I have a Helor 101. It's been my work/travel grinder for years. Great grinder. Excellent build quality. I think the 106 would address my only gripes with the 101. I got an earlier version that uses O rings to secure the grind cup to the upper portion of the grinder. I would have loved magnets. The O rings are still tight, and have never slipped, I just like the feel of the magnets snapping into place. And with particularly dense beans, I need to grip the grinder very firmly. Even then, it can slip. It's never been enough of an issue for me to break down and get a rubber ring though.

Quality in the cup is excellent, at least for pour over/drip. Haven't used it for espresso in a long time.
 
Anyone have any experience with the Lynn HG prime or the helor 106? Trying to decide between them. I’m enjoying manual grinding, and I feel like I might be able to land some shurikones eventually.

Since the argos doesn’t have a pump it’ll be nice to avoid motors in my grinders until I’m eventually at a spot where I can get two phase power for a big boy machine like a nurri
A hand grinder should be chosen depending on your main application. Espresso requires narrower tolerances and small incremental adjustments. I have a 1zpresso JE with Italmill conical burrs. Its so good I even use it occassionally at home..... and my primary grinder is a Kafatek MC5. Thats quite an endorsement.
 
Thanks all! The main reason I was eyeing the Lynn and helor was due to their ability to support 71mm burrs for the shurikones which every review seems to indicate they are the conical burr perfected. I don’t have any interest in pour over or super light roasts since I despise acidity in my coffee. Figured conical is the way to go and all the reviews seem to agree. Those two companies seem to be amongst the best for build quality in hand grinders, waiting for Lynn to confirm that the prime can accept 71mms the way the prior grinders could, then it sounds like it’s just a matter of form factor.

A hand grinder should be chosen depending on your main application. Espresso requires narrower tolerances and small incremental adjustments. I have a 1zpresso JE with Italmill conical burrs. It’s so good I even use it occassionally at home..... and my primary grinder is a Kafatek MC5. Thats quite an endorsement.
I’ve been using the K ultra, while it’s been great I do slightly regret not going for the j ultra for the finer grind adjustments. I haven’t had any issues yet but I could see it being a problem when I start stepping down to medium roasts. How would you compare the MC5 and JE? I hate the design of kafateks grinders, but I love the obvious build quality and I’ve heard nothing but perfection about their burrs. I would buy multiple burr sets in a heart beat if Dennis would sell to non-owners. Haven’t found out WHY he won’t yet, but I’m hoping he will one day, or I’ll just end up with the MC7 when that comes out I guess we’ll see what happens first…
 
Thanks all! The main reason I was eyeing the Lynn and helor was due to their ability to support 71mm burrs for the shurikones which every review seems to indicate they are the conical burr perfected. I don’t have any interest in pour over or super light roasts since I despise acidity in my coffee. Figured conical is the way to go and all the reviews seem to agree. Those two companies seem to be amongst the best for build quality in hand grinders, waiting for Lynn to confirm that the prime can accept 71mms the way the prior grinders could, then it sounds like it’s just a matter of form factor.


I’ve been using the K ultra, while it’s been great I do slightly regret not going for the j ultra for the finer grind adjustments. I haven’t had any issues yet but I could see it being a problem when I start stepping down to medium roasts. How would you compare the MC5 and JE? I hate the design of kafateks grinders, but I love the obvious build quality and I’ve heard nothing but perfection about their burrs. I would buy multiple burr sets in a heart beat if Dennis would sell to non-owners. Haven’t found out WHY he won’t yet, but I’m hoping he will one day, or I’ll just end up with the MC7 when that comes out I guess we’ll see what happens first…
If you’re drinking primarily medium to darker roasts I’d be shocked if the burr set in either of the grinders you’re looking at like would be a limiting factor. They’re both high quality burrs. it’s the light roast bright coffees or those submitted to a modern processing method that can benefit most from the newer advancements in burr geometry. I drink a lot of rather modern / esoteric light roast stuff and have never found my stock burrs to be a limiting factor.
 
If you’re drinking primarily medium to darker roasts I’d be shocked if the burr set in either of the grinders you’re looking at like would be a limiting factor. They’re both high quality burrs. it’s the light roast bright coffees or those submitted to a modern processing method that can benefit most from the newer advancements in burr geometry. I drink a lot of rather modern / esoteric light roast stuff and have never found my stock burrs to be a limiting factor.
I wouldn’t say even my current grinder is a limiting factor. Been happy with the results given the quality of the feedstock. But my understanding of the shurikones is that they’re supposed to remove most of the bitter finish that can occur. I don’t even know if my tastebuds would notice, but if I chase things like apex ultra as the newest best development for knives I figure doing the same for coffee makes sense
 
Right-o. My first brush with high end coffee at a little over 20/lb after taxes resulted in tasting notes of “ash, with base notes of coffee and subtle hints of complexity drowned by more ash”. From google-fu it seems this roaster messed up in one of several ways during the roast. From my eyes and from roasting charts the beans are somewhere between 1C and city+. I’ve done Pete’s major Dickinson which are absurdly dark by comparison, and even those didn’t literally taste of ash.

Sooooo anyone got any recommendations for a place that does a solid medium roast, reliably?
 
Thanks all! I’ll check ‘em out. I have to believe there’s better out there. Annoyed I have to work through two pounds of this stuff when it sounded super promising from the flavor notes.
Favorite mediums-medium dark, no ashy or bitterness:

https://durangocoffee.com/product/costa-rica-las-lajas-perla-negra/

https://www.metropoliscoffee.com/products/redline-espresso

https://caffelusso.com/collections/coffee/products/gran-miscela-carmo-espresso-blend

https://jbccoffeeroasters.com/product/twisted-espresso/

https://www.redroostercoffee.com/products/flight-seasonal-espresso

https://www.swroasting.coffee/product/fuchsia-carnival-espresso-roast/41?
cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=3

https://www.swroasting.coffee/produ...true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=2

Are you over extracting? Usually where you find bitterness. What ratios are you usally going for? Sorry if I missed this
 
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Not getting any noticeable bitterness, just straight ashy flavor. Tastes like when you’re camping and put out a campfire and the steam decides to blow the ashes in your face. Tried just chewing on the beans, and it comes through even then so seems to be independent of both the grinding and brewing.

18g in 30-36g out is the range of shots so far. Using the 9barista so shot times tend to be a bit more fluid than traditional machines, but doing the 40-60 seconds I’ve had success with on every other bean. Tried going as fast as 20 seconds, no change in the ash.
 
Not getting any noticeable bitterness, just straight ashy flavor. Tastes like when you’re camping and put out a campfire and the steam decides to blow the ashes in your face. Tried just chewing on the beans, and it comes through even then so seems to be independent of both the grinding and brewing.

18g in 30-36g out is the range of shots so far. Using the 9barista so shot times tend to be a bit more fluid than traditional machines, but doing the 40-60 seconds I’ve had success with on every other bean. Tried going as fast as 20 seconds, no change in the ash.
pics please? Ash sould only happen wit drop temps clearly over 209 or so Celsius (408F) or thereabout.
Lower your water temp a bit to see if that helps, then try lower your dose, (I always suggest folks to start from 14g in 25 out in 40 sec). If it stays it's the coffee, you cannot undo that but may be able to amplify it less.

When drinking that sort of medium/dark roast your burr sets are unlikely to be able to weed out bitterness, shot technique may...try a ristretto. Acid is extracted first, bitters last, so cutting your shot volume down (keeping the 40 s target) will help decreasing the bitters.
 
18.1g attached. The coffee is supposed to be a 50% honey roast, which from doing some reading apparently the fruit flesh left on the beans can char pretty easily if not cared for. I noticed some of the centerline for the beans are quite light, others seem rather dark. From what I can tell the coffee is dialed in so to speak, there’s no noticeable bitterness/astringency or acidity, or at least I can tell underneath the ash flavor. The ash kind of dominates everything.

The beans are super freshly roasted, so at first I thought it was because I only waited 1–2 days to start using them, but it didn’t improve over the next few days and from what I read using too fresh mostly mutes flavors, rather than introducing defects
 

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that looks indeed like a city + or just before that, if you only get ashy it coud be they had a chaff fire...that messes up flavors big time.

The honey roast thing is new to me, honey processed greens I know (and love) but that process cleans the beans from the flesh. I cannot imagine having any leftover flesh on the greens and successfully roast without charring the heck out of the leftover flesh at over 200 'C
 
that looks indeed like a city + or just before that, if you only get ashy it coud be they had a chaff fire...that messes up flavors big time.

The honey roast thing is new to me, honey processed greens I know (and love) but that process cleans the beans from the flesh. I cannot imagine having any leftover flesh on the greens and successfully roast without charring the heck out of the leftover flesh at over 200 'C
Oh yup, I miswrote that. Honey process is the one, which I understand is a midway between natural which leaves the fruit on and washed which removes it entirely.

They certainly taste charred, and in fact past charred. Even Starbucks beans which I bought as a bushy tailed youngster full of optimism in days of yore weren’t this bad. I appreciate the info, it’s a good sanity check that aligns with the information I was finding on YouTube and homebarista about what I’m tasting
 
starbuck was OK-ish in the distant past, the last cup I bought there in momentarily lapse of reason was so horrible I threw it away.
there are a few ways to get rid of the flesh of the coffee cherry and the white skin around the 2 beans, the differences make up for nuances in flavor but not any processing method will make a 90+ green from something mediocre.

https://sprudge.com/what-is-honey-processed-coffee-184876.html
 
On the subject of home roasting, given how big folks budgets are when it comes to coffee equipment (and roasters) it’s weird to me nobody has made a 500ish gram machine that has a catalytic system for removing the smoke similar to how the GE indoor smoker does. It would make roasting waaaay more approachable to the demographic without balcony or garage access.
 
On the subject of home roasting, given how big folks budgets are when it comes to coffee equipment (and roasters) it’s weird to me nobody has made a 500ish gram machine that has a catalytic system for removing the smoke similar to how the GE indoor smoker does. It would make roasting waaaay more approachable to the demographic without balcony or garage access.
i always wanted to try this

https://ikawahome.com/products/ikawa-home-roasting-system
 
On the subject of home roasting, given how big folks budgets are when it comes to coffee equipment (and roasters) it’s weird to me nobody has made a 500ish gram machine that has a catalytic system for removing the smoke similar to how the GE indoor smoker does. It would make roasting waaaay more approachable to the demographic without balcony or garage access.
Agreed. I’ve got a behmor and they’ve made some smoke suppression claims which I found to be erm, overstated, after setting off the fire alarms in our apartment while I was roasting at 5 am.
We’ve since moved and I can roast outside or under our stove hood without any issues, but apartment roasting was a pain.
 
So, dialing in a new grinder and two new beans has been a hilariously predictable and amateurish mistake with an expected outcome.

Haven’t had much luck with destroyer. It’s got a ton of acidity (brightness as ya’ll who actually have palates would say I believe), but haven’t had much luck pulling much else out regardless of tweaks. There were a few that raised eyebrows and made people say there was something different about it they couldn’t put their finger on. Closest I got from them in describing it was a full taste. I have no idea what that means, but I also described a coffee as smelling ‘blue’ so I can’t judge. Suspecting there may not be much else in there, since nothing really stood out about it when cupping. Gotten the same general acidity with shot times running from 20 seconds to around 60 seconds (9barista so it behaves a touch differently than traditional machines).

Mass appeal however has been both frustrating and very interesting. Even to someone who thinks shallots are just an onion that got a massage from some garlic cloves, so that’s saying something. None of the sugar cookie and other notes they talk about, but a pretty surprising amount of sweetness when cupped. I had one shot that was almost perfect from it (tasted like there was a solid tsp of sugar added to the cup and it lasted for at least a few minutes after the last sip. Did not expect that at all from a coffee), but I made some tweaks to try and reduce the acidity on the next shot and was unfortunately 7 shots into testing so my notes were a mite disorganized. Considering ordering it again to try and recreate that flash in the pan.

Maybe ya’ll were right about coffee. I still think roasters should be required to list coffee as the main flavor though because I was HYPED for a creamsicle flavored one and incredibly disappointed by the results.
 
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