Is the drying an important issue with the stones? I mean I've never given any thought to how my stones dry. I finish my sharpening, leave the stones on the dish drying rack and put them away after they are dry. That said, my stones are Shapton Glass ones which you can just dry with a towel and put away, since they don't absorb too much moisture.
EU Gesshin stones passaround - register here
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The difference comes with splash&go stones versus soaking stones. A normal sized soaking stone will absorb 100 or even more ml of water. Soaked stone has slightly different mechanical properties (so it seems to me) and if stored wet it could either get some fungus on its surface, or cracks as the drying will be uneven. I do not have much scientific evidence for that though.
Splash&go stones absorb very little water (easy to measure after all) and thus dry within a day. Some stones (like e.g. the JNS300) seem to absorb basically 0 water and dry really quickly.
But we really need a view of someone with more experience here.
Splash&go stones absorb very little water (easy to measure after all) and thus dry within a day. Some stones (like e.g. the JNS300) seem to absorb basically 0 water and dry really quickly.
But we really need a view of someone with more experience here.
In my experience Shapton Pro stones are completely dry after two days are room temperature. That is, when you have not soaked them, but used them as splays and go.
They're nearly completely dry much earlier, but personally I would wait two days before sending them off.
They're nearly completely dry much earlier, but personally I would wait two days before sending them off.
So - where do we stand with the passaround? 
Devon_Steven
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The stones left the UK for andur in Estonia this afternoon.
I'll write a review when I get a chance. Suffice to say I enjoyed them and now I want something to bridge the gap between my 1200 and 6000.
Anyway, more later...
I'll write a review when I get a chance. Suffice to say I enjoyed them and now I want something to bridge the gap between my 1200 and 6000.
Anyway, more later...
Thanks Devon
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
Hey all,
Considering I'm currently pretty much swamped in my thesis work I don't think it makes much sense for me to participate in this right now. Since I have some deadlines to reach I don't even get to use my own sharpening stones right now, let alone have any time for playing with 'new toys'. So if it's okay with you guys you can take me out of the list and just skip me.
Regards,
Joris
Considering I'm currently pretty much swamped in my thesis work I don't think it makes much sense for me to participate in this right now. Since I have some deadlines to reach I don't even get to use my own sharpening stones right now, let alone have any time for playing with 'new toys'. So if it's okay with you guys you can take me out of the list and just skip me.
Regards,
Joris
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
Something to consider; I think it makes sense to differentiate between resinoid and magnesia stones instead of grouping them together as S&G. My Naniwa Pro/Chosera stones behave very differently to my Arashiyama.
No problem on my side, just please be sure to communicate it to krx927.
Devon_Steven
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This chart has Shapton on it https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VaTf3MXuwuvH-QLwOci4f9B9Zhkbuu1wjoSCZIUsR-o/htmlview
if you can find the particle size (microns) data for the Gesshin stones (on the JKI web site?) you can compare.
Or does the Gesshin line up conform to an existing grit scale?
Steven
if you can find the particle size (microns) data for the Gesshin stones (on the JKI web site?) you can compare.
Or does the Gesshin line up conform to an existing grit scale?
Steven
we conform to the JIS grit rating
Devon_Steven
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Thanks Jon.
Those were nice stones, btw; I will do a write-up soon (I was first in the passaround).
Devon_Steven
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What I did.
Firstly, I used my new Shapton pro 'Moss' 200 to move the shinogi line on my Itinomonn 210mm gyuto up a little and thin a little around the shinogi area.
I then used the progression of Matus's stones to remove the worst of the scratching from the blade and also re-touch the cutting edge. Quite minimal work with Matus's stones since didn't want to wear them away too much, but a useful way to get a feel for all of the stones in progression.
The second job I did was similar to the job above, but on a very small knife that I received from Watanabe not long ago. It is a 90mm Kuro-uchi Ajikiri (standard line) and I moved the shinogi up a little (again using my Naniwa 220) to facilitate the creation of a hamaguri edge.
The third job was to use the 4000 and 6000 to tidy up the factory edge on my newly-acquired 240mm Tanaka blue #2 gyuto that I found (amazingly) in stock at Metal Master in Japan.
The 400 (compared and contrasted with my own Naniwa Professional 400).
The 400 is much more muddy and soft than my Naniwa. It feels like more stone is being removed during the work, although may just be an impression that I got because of the different feel between the stones.
The 400 has a nice feel/feedback; I liked it.
The 2000 (compared and contrasted with my own Sigma Power II 1200).
The Sigma Power II feels more aggressive - and it should, it has a lower grit number. However, the Gesshin 2000 does feel a lot smoother to use. At the same time as feeling smooth, it also gives the impression that the stone is doing a good job of removing metal.
The 4000 (no similar stone of mine to compare and contrast with).
Similar in feel to the 2000; smooth but you really get the impression that it's doing the job required.
The 6000 (compared and contrasted with my own Sigma Jinzo Renge Suita 6000).
These stones I found to be very similar in both feel and looks (aside from the Gesshin's blue colours versus the pink renge in the Sigma).
I like them both, although I can't really offer a comparison to anything as I haven't used a different type of stone in that approx. grit.
Drying out
I weighed the soaking stones before use so that I'd know when they were properly dry for shipping onward.
400: 889g
2000: 754g
4000: 1098g (has base)
Not surprisingly - owing to its having a base fitted - the 4000 took the longest to dry out. Even after 10 days drying it still retained about 20g extra water compared to when I received it.
My conclusions
Those Gesshins are really nice stones and I'd be happy to own a set like that.
The most significant message for me is that I need a stone to bridge the gap between my existing 1200 and 6000 stones. The reason I say that is because it seemed to take so much less effort tidying the low grit scratches using the 2k, 4k, progression compared with my usual 1200 ---> 6000 routine.
Finally, thanks to Matus for his generosity (and time) in setting up the passaround.
Steven
Firstly, I used my new Shapton pro 'Moss' 200 to move the shinogi line on my Itinomonn 210mm gyuto up a little and thin a little around the shinogi area.
I then used the progression of Matus's stones to remove the worst of the scratching from the blade and also re-touch the cutting edge. Quite minimal work with Matus's stones since didn't want to wear them away too much, but a useful way to get a feel for all of the stones in progression.
The second job I did was similar to the job above, but on a very small knife that I received from Watanabe not long ago. It is a 90mm Kuro-uchi Ajikiri (standard line) and I moved the shinogi up a little (again using my Naniwa 220) to facilitate the creation of a hamaguri edge.
The third job was to use the 4000 and 6000 to tidy up the factory edge on my newly-acquired 240mm Tanaka blue #2 gyuto that I found (amazingly) in stock at Metal Master in Japan.
The 400 (compared and contrasted with my own Naniwa Professional 400).
The 400 is much more muddy and soft than my Naniwa. It feels like more stone is being removed during the work, although may just be an impression that I got because of the different feel between the stones.
The 400 has a nice feel/feedback; I liked it.
The 2000 (compared and contrasted with my own Sigma Power II 1200).
The Sigma Power II feels more aggressive - and it should, it has a lower grit number. However, the Gesshin 2000 does feel a lot smoother to use. At the same time as feeling smooth, it also gives the impression that the stone is doing a good job of removing metal.
The 4000 (no similar stone of mine to compare and contrast with).
Similar in feel to the 2000; smooth but you really get the impression that it's doing the job required.
The 6000 (compared and contrasted with my own Sigma Jinzo Renge Suita 6000).
These stones I found to be very similar in both feel and looks (aside from the Gesshin's blue colours versus the pink renge in the Sigma).
I like them both, although I can't really offer a comparison to anything as I haven't used a different type of stone in that approx. grit.
Drying out
I weighed the soaking stones before use so that I'd know when they were properly dry for shipping onward.
400: 889g
2000: 754g
4000: 1098g (has base)
Not surprisingly - owing to its having a base fitted - the 4000 took the longest to dry out. Even after 10 days drying it still retained about 20g extra water compared to when I received it.
My conclusions
Those Gesshins are really nice stones and I'd be happy to own a set like that.
The most significant message for me is that I need a stone to bridge the gap between my existing 1200 and 6000 stones. The reason I say that is because it seemed to take so much less effort tidying the low grit scratches using the 2k, 4k, progression compared with my usual 1200 ---> 6000 routine.
Finally, thanks to Matus for his generosity (and time) in setting up the passaround.
Steven
Thank you Steven for the review and you are most welcome
Did you try to use the edge after the Gesshin 4000 or did you go straight to 6000 before using the knife?
Did you try to use the edge after the Gesshin 4000 or did you go straight to 6000 before using the knife?
Devon_Steven
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I did do some cutting with the 4000 edge, and it was good, but time was pressing and I also wanted to put a 6k edge on so I didn't do much cutting with the 4k edge.
Shame.
Anyway, I was already holding up the passaround and time was against me; ces't la vie
Shame.
Anyway, I was already holding up the passaround and time was against me; ces't la vie
Devon_Steven
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This should read "(again using my SHAPTON 220)"
I tried the stones out on a few knives in a quick session. I'll try to write up my thoughts on the stones. For comparison I've got a few of natural Japanese stones, some Coticules, Gotland natural stones, a full set of Shapton Glass stones, a 3 stone Shapton Pro set, a Naniwa SS 10k, Arkansas etc. My go-to set for a proper sharpening job is the full Shapton Glass up into 16k. If I'm in a hurry to touch up a knife before some cooking at home I'll get out my 1k, 5k, 12k Shapton Pro set and spend a minute or two on each (or stop at the 5k, good bite on a VG10 gyuto).
So I got the Gesshins and immediately it's obvious they are soaking stones. Might require 5min in the sink before use and they do drink up a good amount of water. Compared to splash-and-go ones it's a good amount of extra time.
Gesshin 400 - nice big coarse stone. Very quick but also very coarse, compared to a glass 500 it feel coarser, I think it might leave deeper scratches. Also it wears really really quickly and dishes fast. A little bit like the Naniwa 400 but even faster/coarser? Since it wears quickly it won't clog and always keeps fresh particles available but they also scratch my bevels pretty hard. Dishes quickly but is soft enough to lap quickly. For a typical edge that needs refreshing I feel it is too coarse (not necessary).
Gesshin 2000 - impressive stone. Very nice feedback and good polish despite cutting quickly. When sharpening it feels like a 1000 but the scratches are finer. For a gyuto or single bevel this would be a good starting point, even for quickly setting a new bevel and getting out a small chip. It made a new bevel on my Tojiro DP VG10 in about a minute, very fast in a good way but not agressive or scratchy. It isn't as dishy as the 400 but still dishes even in a short sharpening session. Also it's a pain to lap, somehow dishes quicker than it flattens.
Gesshin 4000 - Again, good feedback and awesome feeling when sharpening. Feels good and fast, nice slurry. Compared to a Shapton Glass HC 4000 it's quicker cutting, a bit more agressive I feel. Doesn't dish as much as the 2000, easier to keep flat. Makes a nice toothy edge however too coarse for my taste so I'd step a gyuto up at least to the 6000.
Gesshin 6000 - Splash and go and a good finisher. Doesn't dish, leaves a good grippy bity edge. A good choice for a gyuto finisher. Looks good too! Nice and flat and stable so good for the ura side too. This and the 2000 stand out from the rest. The 2000 as it's very nice and quick, this one is a good finisher that won't dish too easily and leaves a good bity edge. For a chisel or a plane blade it's too coarse and I'd step up a few more stones for a mirror polish.
Concluding remarks. I'm very happy to have had the chance to test these stones. Don't take my word as the truth about these, it's just the feeling I got from using them. I'm glad I got a chance to try a different set of stones without buying them. In the end testing this set made me more confident about my existing Shapton lineup which I now appreciate even more.
The biggest cons for my average use is the soaking. I'd like to be able to use a stone immediately without the soaking delay. A typical home cooking situation: "oh I need to make a salad quick before the meat is ready" and you can quickly touch up a gyuto on a splash and go stones. With these ones you'll need some soaking, flattening and a lot of cleaning (good amount of slurry produced), plus they need to dry somewhere.
If one can live with soaking and dishing the benefit is a good stone that won't clog and is a joy to use. They really do feel good when sharpening and get the job done. Dishing is also a problem in my opinion but that's the drawback of a softer stone.
These are my thoughts only, your methods may vary. I'm happy to have tried them and go back to what I'm used to.
The stones will need to dry a few days and will be packed and shipped hopefully next week.
So I got the Gesshins and immediately it's obvious they are soaking stones. Might require 5min in the sink before use and they do drink up a good amount of water. Compared to splash-and-go ones it's a good amount of extra time.
Gesshin 400 - nice big coarse stone. Very quick but also very coarse, compared to a glass 500 it feel coarser, I think it might leave deeper scratches. Also it wears really really quickly and dishes fast. A little bit like the Naniwa 400 but even faster/coarser? Since it wears quickly it won't clog and always keeps fresh particles available but they also scratch my bevels pretty hard. Dishes quickly but is soft enough to lap quickly. For a typical edge that needs refreshing I feel it is too coarse (not necessary).
Gesshin 2000 - impressive stone. Very nice feedback and good polish despite cutting quickly. When sharpening it feels like a 1000 but the scratches are finer. For a gyuto or single bevel this would be a good starting point, even for quickly setting a new bevel and getting out a small chip. It made a new bevel on my Tojiro DP VG10 in about a minute, very fast in a good way but not agressive or scratchy. It isn't as dishy as the 400 but still dishes even in a short sharpening session. Also it's a pain to lap, somehow dishes quicker than it flattens.
Gesshin 4000 - Again, good feedback and awesome feeling when sharpening. Feels good and fast, nice slurry. Compared to a Shapton Glass HC 4000 it's quicker cutting, a bit more agressive I feel. Doesn't dish as much as the 2000, easier to keep flat. Makes a nice toothy edge however too coarse for my taste so I'd step a gyuto up at least to the 6000.
Gesshin 6000 - Splash and go and a good finisher. Doesn't dish, leaves a good grippy bity edge. A good choice for a gyuto finisher. Looks good too! Nice and flat and stable so good for the ura side too. This and the 2000 stand out from the rest. The 2000 as it's very nice and quick, this one is a good finisher that won't dish too easily and leaves a good bity edge. For a chisel or a plane blade it's too coarse and I'd step up a few more stones for a mirror polish.
Concluding remarks. I'm very happy to have had the chance to test these stones. Don't take my word as the truth about these, it's just the feeling I got from using them. I'm glad I got a chance to try a different set of stones without buying them. In the end testing this set made me more confident about my existing Shapton lineup which I now appreciate even more.
The biggest cons for my average use is the soaking. I'd like to be able to use a stone immediately without the soaking delay. A typical home cooking situation: "oh I need to make a salad quick before the meat is ready" and you can quickly touch up a gyuto on a splash and go stones. With these ones you'll need some soaking, flattening and a lot of cleaning (good amount of slurry produced), plus they need to dry somewhere.
If one can live with soaking and dishing the benefit is a good stone that won't clog and is a joy to use. They really do feel good when sharpening and get the job done. Dishing is also a problem in my opinion but that's the drawback of a softer stone.
These are my thoughts only, your methods may vary. I'm happy to have tried them and go back to what I'm used to.
The stones will need to dry a few days and will be packed and shipped hopefully next week.
Devon_Steven
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Interesting review andur.
As for soaking and time constraints, my one soaking stone just perma-soaks so time is no issue. Those Gesshins can go perma as well.
As for soaking and time constraints, my one soaking stone just perma-soaks so time is no issue. Those Gesshins can go perma as well.
Thanks for the heads up
Thasks and have fun
I tested the stones on a few knives. Unfortunately none of my carbon knives was in need of a stone so I tested the following knives, Henckels chef knife, Blazen Honesuki and I just touch up my Takamura on 6000. My goal in participating in this passaround was to see how the stones will compare with my Naniwa Professional (Chosera) and Naniwa super stone (that never gets used any more after I bought Chosera).
When I receive the stones I immediately put the soakers in water so I cannot comment how much time they would need for soaking.
Gesshin 400
Initially I was impressed by the size of this stone but later found out that this is because of the slightly oversized base on which it is mounted (not original). The stone feels great and also very aggressive. My initial impression was that it is much faster and coarser compared to Chosera. Like everybody is saying it is very muddy and pretty soft stone. In this department very comparable to Naniwa 250 super stone, but much faster. Later I tested it in thinning only a small part of the Henckels. I did the same with Chosera on other section. When comparing results I could see that the scratch marks are approximately the same between the stones, but I did have an impression that Chosera was slightly faster, for sure it is much harder and less muddy. I must say that this is also incredibly loud stone. You can really hear when you are grinding away on the stone. Gesshin definitely wins on the feedback which is way better than Chosera.
Gesshin 2000
Again the first thing that I noticed was the incredible feedback. I could also feel the stone being aggressive. The difference in the feedback over my Chosera was even greater on SG2 steel on Blazen. I really liked this as the Chosera 1000 is giving really bad feedback on this steel. The stone is very fast and I started my sharpening on Honesuki here. I was able to raise the burr pretty fast and there was no need for coarser stone. In its usage it is pretty comparable with my Ch. 1000. Not that it needed lapping I still tried few passes with my Atoma 140. Like Andur wrote it is a pain to lap. I had a feeling I did not get anywhere with it.
Gesshin 4000, what can I say, everything as Gesshin 2000 just finer.
Gesshin 6000, nice looking stone. I just do not know what that paper is doing on the sides of the stone. Despite being splash and go it still gets wet. Was this on the stone originally? Again nice stone with great feeling, much better than Naniwa Snow White that feels a bit rubbery.
I am yet to test the edge on Takamura&Blazen but I think it will cut great and is a perfect finisher.
Conclusion
All in all great stones. I was really happy to try them out to compare them to my Choseras. The biggest con from my side is that they are soakers and in my situation this is not workable for me. But that is just a decision when buying stones and if you are OK to wait for them to soak or you keep them permanently soaked they are very very good stones.
Perhaps the only negative thing is that I could see that 400 was dishing too fast for my taste. For the others I cannot really judge as I was not using them so much/are not problematic in this area. But all 4 of them really shine in the feedback department. This was the thing I was mostly impressed with when using them.
Thank you Matus and Jan for organizing this:doublethumbsup:
When I receive the stones I immediately put the soakers in water so I cannot comment how much time they would need for soaking.
Gesshin 400
Initially I was impressed by the size of this stone but later found out that this is because of the slightly oversized base on which it is mounted (not original). The stone feels great and also very aggressive. My initial impression was that it is much faster and coarser compared to Chosera. Like everybody is saying it is very muddy and pretty soft stone. In this department very comparable to Naniwa 250 super stone, but much faster. Later I tested it in thinning only a small part of the Henckels. I did the same with Chosera on other section. When comparing results I could see that the scratch marks are approximately the same between the stones, but I did have an impression that Chosera was slightly faster, for sure it is much harder and less muddy. I must say that this is also incredibly loud stone. You can really hear when you are grinding away on the stone. Gesshin definitely wins on the feedback which is way better than Chosera.
Gesshin 2000
Again the first thing that I noticed was the incredible feedback. I could also feel the stone being aggressive. The difference in the feedback over my Chosera was even greater on SG2 steel on Blazen. I really liked this as the Chosera 1000 is giving really bad feedback on this steel. The stone is very fast and I started my sharpening on Honesuki here. I was able to raise the burr pretty fast and there was no need for coarser stone. In its usage it is pretty comparable with my Ch. 1000. Not that it needed lapping I still tried few passes with my Atoma 140. Like Andur wrote it is a pain to lap. I had a feeling I did not get anywhere with it.
Gesshin 4000, what can I say, everything as Gesshin 2000 just finer.
Gesshin 6000, nice looking stone. I just do not know what that paper is doing on the sides of the stone. Despite being splash and go it still gets wet. Was this on the stone originally? Again nice stone with great feeling, much better than Naniwa Snow White that feels a bit rubbery.
I am yet to test the edge on Takamura&Blazen but I think it will cut great and is a perfect finisher.
Conclusion
All in all great stones. I was really happy to try them out to compare them to my Choseras. The biggest con from my side is that they are soakers and in my situation this is not workable for me. But that is just a decision when buying stones and if you are OK to wait for them to soak or you keep them permanently soaked they are very very good stones.
Perhaps the only negative thing is that I could see that 400 was dishing too fast for my taste. For the others I cannot really judge as I was not using them so much/are not problematic in this area. But all 4 of them really shine in the feedback department. This was the thing I was mostly impressed with when using them.
Thank you Matus and Jan for organizing this:doublethumbsup:
Thank you for your feedback I am glad you enjoyed the stones - that was the main reason for us to organize this passaround after all
A few words on the 6000 stone. It is a S&G that should either be used without any soaking, or permasoaked. That is also stated on JKI webpage, but I managed to miss that. I have soaked the stone together with the 400 and 2000 in the past and the constant drying started to cause hairline cracks and I was advised to mount the stone to a base and use a combination of lacquer (I have used shellac) and washi paper to cover the sides. I have not done this before and the shellac I bought was probably too thin for the job, so the result is not particularly helping the stone and looks funky.
The 400 was also mounted on a base as it was getting thin and I wanted to give it a little more support for the passaround.
I am glad you enjoyed the stones - that was the main reason for us to organize this passaround after all A few words on the 6000 stone. It is a S&G that should either be used without any soaking, or permasoaked. That is also stated on JKI webpage, but I managed to miss that. I have soaked the stone together with the 400 and 2000 in the past and the constant drying started to cause hairline cracks and I was advised to mount the stone to a base and use a combination of lacquer (I have used shellac) and washi paper to cover the sides. I have not done this before and the shellac I bought was probably too thin for the job, so the result is not particularly helping the stone and looks funky.
The 400 was also mounted on a base as it was getting thin and I wanted to give it a little more support for the passaround.
