Heavy Chef's Knife - A New Project

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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Been getting some input on heavy chef's from several Japanese makers. Really cool stuff. Need to give it a little bit of a thought and try other grinds.

I am curios now about Heiji (or with a similar "sword" grind) geometry for sujis. If you use one regularly, please shoot me a PM. I would like to pick your brain a little bit.
 
Marko, if you need anymore testers let me know i would be interested as well. Seems like a cool project.
 
By 'sword' geometry are you meaning near-flat bevels with a shinogi line?
 
OK, I reground this one a little bit, converting tip area to full convex, leaving the rest is sword grind. Just waiting for the handle to glue, then shape, install and out it goes for testing.

I think 3.4mm at the spine will make a superb heavy chef's.

M
 
I'd love to be a tester in a restaurant environment too.
 
I think that is a genius idea to blend the bevels into the table at the tip. One of the Heijis drawbacks is that the tip is easily chipped, this may remedy that, as well as making it more usable for detail work. How does it look?
 
Von blewitt said:
Sounds great, how do you like the appearance of the transition between grinds?

Looking forward to putting it through its paces
Click to expand...

The tip is fully convexed. At about 8cm mark from the tip, the convex becomes "sword grind" and stays like that for the rest of the edge. I didn't bother to keep the shinogi line crisp, as it doesn't seem to have much effect on food separation, and a knife is a little easy to finish. It can be done on the stones if one wants it.

It's a prototype, so the final version will have a few changes (some I already determined), but testing it would allow me to check on changes I made departing from a typical "sword grind" geometry.

I like the weight and stiffness of the blade. I compared it with my regular S grind, and it feels like a heavy chef's.

I would love to do many pass-arounds, but reality is that every project of this type takes away from my orders and it's a hard balance. On one hand I need to deliver work I took payments for, on the other, I need to keep growing as a maker and keep implementing changes as needed, and there are moments where I need to take another look and re-evalue my work.

So, the pass-arounds will be limited to 1-2 pros and I truly look for a constructive criticism, so I can keep improving.

My HT is pretty good for this type of knife (or all types, for that matter). It is 62-63RC, but it won't chip.

M
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
So, the pass-arounds will be limited to 1-2 pros and I truly look for a constructive criticism, so I can keep improving. M
Click to expand...

Marko, I see, but you'll be missing out on some valuable feedback from this Pro-Home Cook that has Mucho nice knives and knows how to sharpen freehand both single and double bevel knives.

Moreover, Its disheartening to hear this as the bulk of your knives are probably bought by home cooks in the first place. I think your Pro-Only focus, has given me the motivation to remove your knives from my bucket list. Clearly it will influence my recomendations to others as well.
 
I like the fact that he is testing with pro's as they will put them to hard use on more products and be able to give more of a full on review of them based on this. As opposed to a home user probably preparing 2-3 meals a day. Sucks to see you are so easily dissuaded from a possibly phenomenal product over not being chosen to be a tester. Unless there is a joke somewhere in there that I missed between old-timers (to the forum).
 
Huey, I hear what you're saying but there's a lot more to testing of a knife than if it can still stay sharp after a case of onions. And we have already stated that "just because you cook in a professional kitchen, doens't mean you know anything about knives." I go out on a limb (which I know someone on KKF will try to saw off the tree) that most people that cook in professional kitchens knives are crap, dull and are probably used incorrectly most of the time.

Also, Marko's assuming that a pro will be harder on the knife or be able to provide better constructive feedback that a home cook. Consider EdipusRieks/Jim/Lefty/MrMMS. Given Marko statement, he must feel that they wouldn't be able to provide some meaningful feedback?
 
One of the requirement for testing is that a knife is put through a shift-two of work, so here testing with the pros makes a bit more sense and that's the reason. I am not implying that pros can evaluate a knife better, just that that they are better situated for this kind of testing.

I also like to pair testers with knives that they have preference for - folks who like heavier knives with heavy knives, folks who like thinner knives - thinner knives.
 
I hear you MB, but I'll throw out another perspective. The all around workout these guys can give a knife in a week would equate to me having the knife in hand for over a month and I too am a pretty active cook. I am guessing that it may just be a more efficient use of time spent. I would also suggest that while many chefs use crappy knives that most chefs here likely fall into another category.

All that said and I would still have to agree that the perspective that could be offered by home cooks/knuts may be not only different but also quite valuable.

Cheers
 
A while back, Marko and I got into a discussion about the pro vs. home cook thing. I thought it was a dick move, but looking back on it, if you want quick info, who better to ask than a guy who knows about knives AND cuts +100lbs of product a shift. I see what you're saying, MuchoBocho, and trust me, I've been there. But, as they say, "it is what it is", and in this case, to expedite the feedback process, it does make sense.

For what it's worth, I've since "tested" two Marko knives, and you should keep his on your list. :)
 
Chinacats and Tom, Yea yea yea, I know you both speak the truth, doesn't mean I have to like it ;-)

In my best Jerky Boys impersonation, "hey if marko is looking to give his knives a workout, send them down, I clear god dam acre of virgin North Carolina backwoods. HA
 
I wasn't trying to be an a-hole, by the way....
 
Tom, I didn't take it that way at all. I would always give you the benefit of the doubt anyway. IMO, You have too much class for personal attacks. I hear what you and China are saying and as usual its logical sense.

I've stated my argument and still feel that I could put that puppy through its paces but I guess its not good enough for Marko. I don't like it but I don't have much choice. that doesn't mean I will put his knives down though. In fact the contrary, perhaps that’s why I feel a little marginalized.
 
I own and use several Heijis, and I know them very well. I'd be happy to give it the ol' comparo, if you decide to let some home users beta test at some point, Marko.
 
I am not going to make another knife in this geometry until I get feedback from Huw. I will try a couple of other geometries for heavy chefs in the mean time. Kato geometry is next.

This one is almost done. Balance point right above the heel. Pics tomorrow.
M
 
225mm heavy chef's knife in 52100, 62-63RC hardness. 245g. Handle - cocobolo, blackwood nickel silver.

DSC_0551.jpg

DSC_0552.jpg
 
That is really sexy. I hope I get a chance to take it for a spin. I just brought my Heiji back to work today after finally getting some time to sharpen the backlog. I started blending up at the tip as per the idea that I think Huw put forward and it worked pretty well today. I need to play with it some more.
 
It's the finish. It's much easier to finish the whole blade with sand paper than have the blade up to shinogi line finished on stones. The basic "sword grind" geometry is there (up to about 8cm from the tip, then it's convex) and the owner could put the knife on the stones and make it Heiji-like if he wants.

This is a prototype, so I don't want to spend too much time on it, but as I said, the geometry is there.

M
 
Also, that line is there, it is only really visible at the heel. I think that may just be the photo though.
 
Lol I would offer mine, but it was thinned recently by Dave. Which would be counter productive for your purposes. Also it's a hontanren which I think it thinner than what you are looking for.
 
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