in support of Jason Collins

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Salty dog said:
It's interesting. The media loves it.
It's also a shame that it's news that a man is gay.
One thing that I'm proud of is the human diversity in my line of work. As macho as it gets and as gay as it gets, black, white or red and everything in between. In my experience it has never been an issue and only enhances the work place.
Does that mean we're enlightened?
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+ 1

As for being the first pro athlete to come out, he isn't. Most have come out after they retired, and even had a lot more backlash than what Jason is getting.
 
i agree and i look forward to the time where things like this are a non-issue... in the meantime, while change is still in progress, dialogue is important
 
yeah... i have a lot of friends in the military... even before dont ask dont tell, people talked and for the most part no one really cared... that being said, regardless of the place, company, or setting, even just a couple of ******** can cause huge problems ;)
 
i dont know... the womens mma right now is stacked with amazing fighters... i'd put many of them up against men and i can see them easily winning (sometimes even at a size/weight disadvantage)... this one is a bit more tricky, but if both fighters are cool with it, i dont see a problem personally. But like i said, sometimes it can get tricky.
 
labor of love said:
Well, the California State Athletic Commission sees nothing wrong with it actually. And shes only the first.
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This strikes me as legal positivism in the extreme. It is one thing to believe that law is right because it is law, and quite another to believe that a decision is right because somebody in a position of power decided it. The first is questionable, and oft questioned, the second seems completely untenable. It may be that it was the right decision, but that needs to be evaluated on the merits of the issue, and not on the simple fact that it was decided.
 
I worked under a CMC for the '89-90 Championship seasons for the Detroit Pistons. We used to carve ice on the loading dock where Dennis Rodman would park his semi-cab covered with Christmas lights that he'd drive to work. Some how a gay BB player over 20 years later seems a bit......passe. OTOH Transgendered midget wresting with throwing knives sounds highly entertaining.
I think Lou Reed pretty much summed up my view on the entire topic with Sweet Jane long, long ago.
 
JBroida said:
haha... well, the only sport i watch is MMA, so take that for what its worth
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I am the same. The time difference actually works out great, I stay up until like 6am on a Sunday morning to watch it live. Working all day Sunday sucks though
 
mzer said:
This strikes me as legal positivism in the extreme. It is one thing to believe that law is right because it is law, and quite another to believe that a decision is right because somebody in a position of power decided it. The first is questionable, and oft questioned, the second seems completely untenable. It may be that it was the right decision, but that needs to be evaluated on the merits of the issue, and not on the simple fact that it was decided.
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State athletic commissions decide if someone is fit and qualified to be a licensed boxer/MMA fighter. Largely this is determined by a persons medical history and level of fitness. My point being, they are indeed in a position of authority to decide if a person is qualified or not be licensed as a fighter. As experts they evaluated Fallons medical history and her health and deemed her worthy of a MMA license.If there was any reason to deny her a license because of her gender reassignment surgery they would have done so. Clearly they are in a position of power because they know what they are doing, and are capable of evaluating a person in ways you and I couldnt. The only issue left here would be the problem some people may have with it.
 
labor of love said:
State athletic commissions decide if someone is fit and qualified to be a licensed boxer/MMA fighter. Largely this is determined by a persons medical history and level of fitness. My point being, they are indeed in a position of authority to decide if a person is qualified or not be licensed as a fighter. As experts they evaluated Fallons medical history and her health and deemed her worthy of a MMA license.If there was any reason to deny her a license because of her gender reassignment surgery they would have done so. Clearly they are in a position of power because they know what they are doing, and are capable of evaluating a person in ways you and I couldnt. The only issue left here would be the problem some people may have with it.
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I'm not sure you understand what I am talking about, so let me explain a little more clearly. There are people who believe that the rightness of a law is derived from its law-ness, or its being written down in the codes, and there are others who believe that the concepts behind the law need to be evaluated on their own merits, and that they have been posited is not enough to deem them right. In this case you are taking it a step further. You are going one step further. You are simply saying that it is right because they have decided, not that it is because they have decided. The latter part is clear, the former, that they know because they are experts and because they are experts they are right is much less clear. In your closing sentence you refer to "the problem" some people might have with it, which strikes me as half a step shy of calling everybody who does not agree with you a form of bigot. That's pretty weak. I think that letting her fight may be the right decision, but the other fighters comments, while extremely indelicate, do bring to light one interesting fact. It isn't that she has gone through a sex change operation, it is that she has somehow gotten to a place where she has circumvented the number one rule taught to little boys by our society today, and that is that you don't beat up on women. I'm not sure I understand how her gender realities interact with the experience of growing up nominally male and having the rules against hitting girls drummed in to your head happen.

So, to recapitulate, you want to arrogate an enormous amount of power, that of right and wrong as opposed to allowed and not allowed, simply because they hold a degree of political power and you want to cut off discussion of interesting issues of social norms rather than examine what is there. That is fine, but as I said in my earlier post, it is limiting and philosophically troubling.

I'll just sum up by saying that I find MMA to be barbaric and I think its legality is a strike against the concept that gaming commissions are doing their jobs.
 
mzer said:
I'll just sum up by saying that I find MMA to be barbaric and I think its legality is a strike against the concept that gaming commissions are doing their jobs.
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Perhaps you aren't a bigot, just very very ignorant

labor of love said:
My point being, they are indeed in a position of authority to decide if a person is qualified or not be licensed as a fighter. As experts they evaluated Fallons medical history and her health and deemed her worthy of a MMA license.
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This assumes that Athletic Commissions know what they are doing when in relation to MMA it has been shown that most don't have a clue and don't know a thing about MMA. For a start look at the number of terrible judging decisions for evidence. I don't believe for a minute that any Athletic Commission has carried out any kind of detailed study to see the extent of Fox's gender reassignment and how it impacts on her fighting. Fighter safety is always talked about and surely this is a giant red flag
 
Mzer, your acessment of my position is so off base, I literally could not respond without writing a huge diatribe, except for the case in which you believe that Im calling someone here a bigot. Which I am not. For you to assume that is pretty weak. Yeah Steven Im sure state athletic commissions are a clusterf*** when it comes to MMA. But, I have no idea why you would think this is a "giant red flag".
 
labor of love said:
Mzer, your acessment of my position is so off base, I literally could not respond without writing a huge diatribe, except for the case in which you believe that Im calling someone here a bigot. Which I am not. For you to assume that is pretty weak. Yeah Steven Im sure state athletic commissions are a clusterf*** when it comes to MMA. But, I have no idea why you would think this is a "giant red flag".
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OK, I read you incorrectly on the bigot part. No harm no foul.
 
On a side note, did anybody bother to read the article I posted initially? I'm no authority on MMA and this subject is altogether still very new to me. My original point was to draw attention to the disparaging remarks made by joe rogan(giant douche),Matt Hughes and others toward Fallon fox. Not to argue the validity of her liscense or her fighting other women.
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3

Now, this is not very honorable, regardless the reasons, though understandable.

I do support people be who they are and to be treated equally.
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Yeah, not cool for him to do that to her, very unfair.

A common statement is being treated equally, though I believe we all should be treated fairly (as opposed to equally). After all, we are all not equal. We all have different talents, beliefs, and strengths/weaknesses. I do not treat everyone equally, but I am fair to everyone. I am not an "everyone gets a trophy" person.
 
AFKitchenknivesguy said:
Yeah, not cool for him to do that to her, very unfair.

A common statement is being treated equally, though I believe we all should be treated fairly (as opposed to equally). After all, we are all not equal. We all have different talents, beliefs, and strengths/weaknesses. I do not treat everyone equally, but I am fair to everyone. I am not an "everyone gets a trophy" person.
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I don't treat everyone the same either. No one does, if they're being honest with you. We are talking about equal rights under the law. Things like shared health benefits, marriage rights and protection from discrimination on the job. In most states you can still be fired for being gay. And not to mention the loads of legal troubles gay couples can have with estates, taxes, wills, investments, adoptions and having family, distant or close, have more legal say than your partner at crucial and important times.

Equal rights under the law. That's it. No one loses anything, some just gain what most already have.

But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.
 
jayhay said:
But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.
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I hear Ricardo Mayorga makes his MMA debut very soon.
He was one of the most entertaining characters in and out of the ring for many years in boxing.
I remember when he lit a cigarette in the ring during a post fight interview.
Should be entertaining however long it lasts.
 
jayhay said:
But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.
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The Henderson Melendez card was pretty awesome. Perhaps an MMA thread would be a good idea?
 
jayhay said:
I don't treat everyone the same either. No one does, if they're being honest with you. We are talking about equal rights under the law. Things like shared health benefits, marriage rights and protection from discrimination on the job. In most states you can still be fired for being gay. And not to mention the loads of legal troubles gay couples can have with estates, taxes, wills, investments, adoptions and having family, distant or close, have more legal say than your partner at crucial and important times.

Equal rights under the law. That's it. No one loses anything, some just gain what most already have.

But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.
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Since we are on the topic of equal rights under the law, to include financial rights. What about us single folks? I'd like to have some tax benefits for being single that those with dependents get. See, not equal. Fair? That's debatable.
 
AFKitchenknivesguy said:
Since we are on the topic of equal rights under the law, to include financial rights. What about us single folks? I'd like to have some tax benefits for being single that those with dependents get. See, not equal. Fair? That's debatable.
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Nope!
you need to get married first and then learn to be miserable just like the rest of us.
only then do you get your tax break.
but is it really worth never getting laid?
 
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