Just pick my damn gyuto please

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If you want the damascus look, western, I would go with Henckels Miyabi (not the S series steel). They have zdp and vg10. I'd go with the VG10 since it sounds like the Shun was fine. It just met an unfortunate end. The HattoriHD/Ittosai Kotetsu is a better cutter and is also VG10. I like it better. It also has nice kanji chiseled into it. You can also try the Togiharu series at Korin or the Gekko line at Japanese Chef Knives. All of these are nice choices with the VG10 blades generally being a bit chippier. Good luck. Oh, and Chefs' Choice isn't the greatest and I have no idea why they have a coarse wheel at all but if you aren't willing to learn to sharpen, it's probably the most cost effective option.
 
Sorry. If you want me to pick your damn gyuto, I would go with the Ittosai Kotetsu/Hattori HD. It is the best cutter amongst the western damascus looking jobs and VG10 on that is plenty good. Enjoy.
 
Zdp-189 is 20% chromium - higher than even 440C stainless (16-18%)! So yes, it is a stainless steel
 
It also has a stunning 3% carbon content.

Stick ZDP-189 and VG-10 in water and wait it out if you want a head to head. :) I already know the answer from real-world experience.

The only knife I own that won't rust is made of H-1 Nitrogen steel.
 
Mr.Magnus said:
Zdp-189 is 20% chromium - higher than even 440C stainless (16-18%)! So yes, it is a stainless steel
Click to expand...


It also has a stunning 3% carbon content.

Stick ZDP-189 and VG-10 in water and wait it out if you want a head to head. :) I already know the answer from real-world experience. "Stainless" rusts. And ZDP-189 with its incredible carbon content (responsible for the ultra-hardness) rusts more than other stainless in my experience. The original poster already commented that her VG-10 Shun (which is considered a stainless steel) pitted under water.

The only knife I own that won't rust is made of H-1 Nitrogen steel (no carbon) which is designed for seadwellers and divers. Once you temper it (tempered with repeated usage followed by sharpening ... it's not heat tempered), it actually gets extremely hard on the knife edge up to HRC64 or so.
 
bkdc said:
It also has a stunning 3% carbon content.

Stick ZDP-189 and VG-10 in water and wait it out if you want a head to head. :) I already know the answer from real-world experience. "Stainless" rusts. And ZDP-189 with its incredible carbon content (responsible for the ultra-hardness) rusts more than other stainless in my experience.

The only knife I own that won't rust is made of H-1 Nitrogen steel (no carbon) which is designed for seadwellers and divers. Once you temper it (tempered with repeated usage followed by sharpening ... it's not heat tempered), it actually gets extremely hard on the knife edge up to HRC64 or so.
Click to expand...

if she wanna stick the knife in water over night then she should go with the H-1 Nitrogen steel for divers then ;)
 
The high carbon content inhibits the corrosion resistance.

-AJ
 
Mr.Magnus said:
Zdp-189 is 20% chromium - higher than even 440C stainless (16-18%)! So yes, it is a stainless steel
Click to expand...

Chromium carbides locked-up ~7% of Cr, leaving less than 14% Cr by stainless standard. My hand-waving calc:

Zp composition: 3% C, 20% Cr, Fe the rest.
Good zdp HT blade: steel (Fe+0.5%C), Chromium carbides (Cr3C2: 2.5%C + ~7%Cr, there are at least 2x C atom/volume when compare to Cr).
-> Almost stainless

Bad zdp HT blade: steel (Fe+0.5%C), Chromium carbides (Cr23C8 or Cr7C3: 2.5%C + 10+%Cr).
-> probably worse than D2 & 440C.
 
tk59 said:
I didn't realize percentages were by volume. I figured they were by mass.
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Initially, I tried to fit the carbide formula by mass but there seem not enough Cr atoms since Cr is 4x atomic mass of C. Oh well, AJ said by mass, it's then. Maybe a chemist or metallurgist can help here.
 
Hehe, and poor Meagan only asked for a recommendation :biggrin: I love this forum!
 
Mr.Magnus said:
Zdp-189 is 20% chromium - higher than even 440C stainless (16-18%)! So yes, it is a stainless steel
Click to expand...

and it's locked up in carbides, as has been mentioned. the stuff is semi-stain resistant, tops.
 
I understand that the carbon trapped in iron carbides can vary up to ~1%. Also, Mo, V and W in zdp are strong carbide formers. I'd still say zdp is stainless although it's clearly not as stainless as most others.
 
tk59 said:
I understand that the carbon trapped in iron carbides can vary up to ~1%. Also, Mo, V and W in zdp are strong carbide formers. I'd still say zdp is stainless although it's clearly not as stainless as most others.
Click to expand...

the ZDP knife i owned, a Henckels Cermax 240 gyuto (a knife i would certainly own again), formed a grey patina eventually, and i didn't own it for that long before selling it to a friend.
 
meagan_myers said:
All I have to say is... WOW
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And this ain't even NOTHING yet. Wait till these guys REALLY get started!

Not to short-change that process, but I'll just throw in my $.02. EVERY steel will eventually rust if left in standing water long enough. Sure, you could wait until we arrive at a consensus about what steel will last the absolute LONGEST in that water before rusting, but I'll instead just advise to please please try not to leave the knife in the sink for that long... Seems easier than finding a special non-steel-super-metal Kitchen Knife. So, if you please please DON'T leave the knife in standing water for long periods of time, and TRY not to let it sit dirty for more than a day and there's likely little true damage you can do to most blades.

Here's a strategy that might help make that happen, and that's getting the blingiest nicest looking knife possible. My Corolla, for instance, is currently covered in dirt and bird, uh, "leavings". I guarantee you the case would be different if it were a Maserati rather than a Corolla, you know?

SO, long story short (too late!) my advice would be this:
1.) Decide if you want a western or Wa shaped handle.
2.) Find a relatively inexpensive blade ($120 -$150ish) with good steel like a Konosuke Stainless or a Yosuke Stainless, or a great deal on a used stainless on this forum.
3.) Depending on your handle choice, post back here to find someone able to do a BEAUTIFUL custom handle for you in incredibly gorgeous wood.

With a knife like that, there is NO WAY you'll neglect it!
 
You know what, I actually have a Stainless Ginga out with Dave for a rehandle that I was intending to sell once it's done anyway. Dave's a bit backed up, though, so that might be longer than you want to wait.
 
LOL even for us, it is very rare to get this technical on a suggestion thread.
 
meagan_myers said:
All I have to say is... WOW
Click to expand...

Yeah...no kidding!

Here's my recommendation - Hiromoto G3 or Hiromoto AS, they are about $145 & $160 respectively (for the 240's) here: http://japanesechefsknife.com/products.html

The G3 is the stainless version, and the AS is stainless clad SuperBlue ....
My experience: I have the AS in a suji, so it sees a different work load than a gyuto, but it's been one of the best intro or 2nd J-knives for us knife knuts for years, and for 'sexy-ness" the core steel in the edge will patina a bluish tint which gives the knife a alook you won't see elsewhere.
I picked up a G3 gyuto to serve as a beater at my Baja beach house and it is a really nice bang for the buck, all around knife, and really - I could sell the watanabe, tadatsuna, carter, and all the rest, and be "OK" with the G3. ( I won't, but I could...I keep telling myself that).
Finally - everybody should have the experience of buying from Koki at JCK - nothing wrong with Jon at JKI or Dave who runs this site, they too are awesome, but Koki set the standard. That leaves a bit of room on your budget and you have two choices. Get your new knife and run away from this site....OR hang around and we'll help you make those excess dollars, and a lot of their friends, disappear!
 
EdipisReks said:
the ZDP knife i owned, a Henckels Cermax 240 gyuto (a knife i would certainly own again), formed a grey patina eventually, and i didn't own it for that long before selling it to a friend.
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My ZDP (a Kono), although used very little, has a slight patina.

FWIW - I thought the Hattori HD was a good suggestion.
 
Ok. Just to clarify. I am not looking for a knife that can soak in water. That was a one time mistake of my husband.
 
meagan_myers said:
Ok. Just to clarify. I am not looking for a knife that can soak in water. That was a one time mistake of my husband.
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I believe they get that, but the recommendations so far are all excellent knives that can't/shouldn't be soaked in water:>)

And if you make your husband read through this thread, I bet he never soaks another knife in water...
 
bprescot said:
You know what, I actually have a Stainless Ginga out with Dave for a rehandle that I was intending to sell once it's done anyway. Dave's a bit backed up, though, so that might be longer than you want to wait.
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I'd take him up on this.
 
I haven't used Gesshin Ginga yet, but I've heard so much positive feed back I'm going to have to grab one eventually. Plus Dave's new shoes for it should be spiffy :cool2:
 
Man, this is why I am having such a problem. There are too many fine J-knives.
If only I could see them in person.
 
meagan_myers said:
Man, this is why I am having such a problem. There are too many fine J-knives.
If only I could see them in person.
Click to expand...

Depending on where you are located, there are likely members not too far away with knives you could look at...or vendors for that matter.
 
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