Kato and Shig? I do not get it...

[Lucien]

I have been on this forum for some time and it seems that Kato and Shig are very popular and seldom last long on BST, in spite of their price tag.

Honestly speaking, I have never used either; but I am very curious why they can demand such high prices. Personally, I think $1k plus is just too much for a clad knife.

Can any users shed some light here?

 

[tgfencer]

There are many threads on this very topic. Self-enlightenment comes to those who use the forum search function.

 

[Corradobrit1]

A good place to start

 

[Jason183]

I have never used them either, it’s more of collector’s pieces, sometimes you’re buying the Names and craftsmanship. Shigefusa for example it’s completely hand made from start to finish with high F&F, no machine involved.

 

[Lucien]

A good place to start

great video - thank you.

 

[Lucien]

I have never used them either, it’s more of collector’s pieces, sometimes you’re buying the Names and craftsmanship. They’re completely hand made from start to finish with high F&F, no machine involved.

not even a grinder? that is insane...

 

[Corradobrit1]

great video - thank you.

He's a licensed swordmaker from a multigenerational sword and knife making family. He does everything himself (except handles), is over 75 years old and has no heir's to carry on the tradition, so that alone contributes to the value the market places on his blades.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

Haven’t used a Shig. Have tried the Kato in the pass around and it was simply one of the best knives I’ve ever handled. Not necessarily the single best by a huge factor, but up there, and with simple beauty like the KS. Couple that with very limited supply and high demand watching it like a hawk trying to snipe one, even the people who don’t want to own one knowing that it can sell for a high price no matter when, and there ya go.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

He's a licensed swordmaker from a multigenerational sword and knife making family. He does everything himself (except handles), is over 75 years old and has no heir's, so that alone contributes to the value the market places on his blades.

If you like unique handmade knives simply for the skill that goes into making it is worth the price.

Seen this video couple times enjoy it.

 

[MarcelNL]

another nice video, this one about Shigefusa.

 

[Panamapeet]

They are all ****, please don’t buy them

 

[Lucien]

They are all ****, please don’t buy them

you are a Kato fan right? how's your experience with them?

 

[Lucien]

Haven’t used a Shig. Have tried the Kato in the pass around and it was simply one of the best knives I’ve ever handled. Not necessarily the single best by a huge factor, but up there, and with simple beauty like the KS. Couple that with very limited supply and high demand watching it like a hawk trying to snipe one, even the people who don’t want to own one knowing that it can sell for a high price no matter when, and there ya go.

sounds more like a demand vs supply thing then. thank you for the insight

 

[Panamapeet]

you are a Kato fan right? how's your experience with them?

They are absolute ****... if you have one i’ll give you scrap metal price for it!!

 

[Lucien]

They are absolute ****... if you have one i’ll give you scrap metal price for it!!

lol - whatever you say mate.

 

[Luftmensch]

@Lucien,

You have been a member of KKF for less than a month - so you deserve leniency

The Shigefusa/Kato question is a horse that has been flogged into its atomic constituents. To that extent, it is an irritating question for the forum to keep revisiting. In general KKF is a good willed place and the members are open and willing to share. You will find that people joke around in threads like this because it is hard to generate any new insights to a vague and well travelled question. Worse, they can descend into a pissing match about which colour is the best.... You may as well say green is 'overrated' and red is objectively 'better' (see the active thread TF Wabi-Sabi, also started by a new member)

Do some searching/reading and you will find plenty of information about both blacksmiths. If you have some very specific questions remaining, you might get more active and useful responses.

Personally, I think $1k plus is just too much for a clad knife.

Knives are tools. When you spend more than a certain amount and 'get into the hobby' they also represent a craft. Shigefusa and Kato have long been regarded as fine examples of traditional handmade Japanese knives. They are valued as artisans, not just tool makers.

You are free to make your own judgements

 

[crlums]

A good place to start

Awesome video. Thanks for sharing. I noticed that around 4:25 he pulls the blade from the fire. Does several hits with a wet hammer, and then moves over to the spring hammer for for most of the shaping. Any idea what the water step is doing there?

 

[Lucien]

@Lucien,

You have been a member of KKF for less than a month - so you deserve leniency

The Shigefusa/Kato question is a horse that has been flogged into its atomic constituents. To that extent, it is an irritating question for the forum to keep revisiting. In general KKF is a good willed place and the members are open and willing to share. You will find that people joke around in threads like this because it is hard to generate any new insights to a vague and well travelled question. Worse, they can descend into a pissing match about which colour is the best.... You may as well say green is 'overrated' and red is objectively 'better' (see the active thread TF Wabi-Sabi, also started by a new member)

Do some searching/reading and you will find plenty of information about both blacksmiths. If you have some very specific questions remaining, you might get more active and useful responses.




Knives are tools. When you spend more than a certain amount and 'get into the hobby' they also represent a craft. Shigefusa and Kato have long been regarded as fine examples of traditional handmade Japanese knives. They are valued as artisans, not just tool makers.

You are free to make your own judgements

cheers mate and thank you for your kind suggestion.
I will do some searching and revisit if any specific questions remain.

 

[Luftmensch]

cheers mate and thank you for your kind suggestion.
I will do some searching and revisit if any specific questions remain.

No worries. I don't want you to get a bad impression of the forum from a thread like this! Dont be turned off. Enjoy participating!

People are unlikely to claim these 'unicorns' are objectively the 'best' in anyway. They are part art and appeal to the collector mentality. You are right... demand is greater than supply. While this clearly affects the price, it has not subtracted from their quality/reputation/tradition. Everybody has their own values and disposable income - it is really hard (near impossible) to say what the correct price for these things are (the market average is probably the 'best' answer).


If you want to talk madness... look at Japanese natural stones. People will also pay thousands for them. While I absolutely 'get it'... (I have some more modestly priced ones)... if you rationalise what is going on there, it is insane. They are literally just rocks.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Even knives as tools in production kitchen used a Honyaki & nice carbon knives, carbon yanagibas, deba. Retired now if went back to work now would have some fantastic cutters in 3-4 hundred range & a couple expensive Honyaki

 

[Lucien]

No worries. I don't want you to get a bad impression of the forum from a thread like this! Dont be turned off. Enjoy participating!

People are unlikely to claim these 'unicorns' are objectively the 'best' in anyway. They are part art and appeal to the collector mentality. You are right... demand is greater than supply. While this clearly affects the price, it has not subtracted from their quality/reputation/tradition. Everybody has their own values and disposable income - it is really hard (near impossible) to say what the correct price for these things are (the market average is probably the 'best' answer).


If you want to talk madness... look at Japanese natural stones. People will also pay thousands for them. While I absolutely 'get it'... (I have some more modestly priced ones)... if you rationalise what is going on there, it is insane. They are literally just rocks.

Thank you mate. I get what you are saying.
When it comes to steel, performance, grind etc. there would be a more unified consensus; but when it comes to art, different people would value things differently; but for a white horse like Kato or Shig, market pricing should be quite efficient.
It is like saying I myself appreciate a nice honyaki, but at the end of day it is just a knife.

 

[waxy]

@Lucien,

You have been a member of KKF for less than a month - so you deserve leniency

The Shigefusa/Kato question is a horse that has been flogged into its atomic constituents. To that extent, it is an irritating question for the forum to keep revisiting. In general KKF is a good willed place and the members are open and willing to share. You will find that people joke around in threads like this because it is hard to generate any new insights to a vague and well travelled question. Worse, they can descend into a pissing match about which colour is the best.... You may as well say green is 'overrated' and red is objectively 'better' (see the active thread TF Wabi-Sabi, also started by a new member)

Do some searching/reading and you will find plenty of information about both blacksmiths. If you have some very specific questions remaining, you might get more active and useful responses.




Knives are tools. When you spend more than a certain amount and 'get into the hobby' they also represent a craft. Shigefusa and Kato have long been regarded as fine examples of traditional handmade Japanese knives. They are valued as artisans, not just tool makers.

You are free to make your own judgements

I've only recently discovered this website, been living under a rock
Perhaps that time outside of the forums help me understand and appreciate my Kato and Shig collection before I realized they were this popular.
I prefer Hinoura and Shigs, personally, and when relatives are over I hide them and bring out the Kiwi's.

Form and functionality they're both great knives, really preference - I recommend trying both to see which fits your kitchen style.
It's a pleasure using the Shig yanagiba for preparing sashimi, never had an issue with discoloration.
I mean it's a yanagiba, it's designed to cut sashimi not potatoes

 

[j22582536]

They are all ****, please don’t buy them

You’re absolutely right, they are total crap, just leave them to me and I’ll take care for you

 

[Martyn]

one way to find out is to get one from BST and try it out yourself - I think the odds are you will love it; even if you do not, you will have no trouble reselling it here for a similar amount you got it for.

 

[RDalman]

Awesome video. Thanks for sharing. I noticed that around 4:25 he pulls the blade from the fire. Does several hits with a wet hammer, and then moves over to the spring hammer for for most of the shaping. Any idea what the water step is doing there?

Wetting hammer and anvil is for removing forging scale. Creates quite the force, can sound like a small bomb.

 

[crlums]

Wetting hammer and anvil is for removing forging scale. Creates quite the force, can sound like a small bomb.

very cool. Thanks for the response and the video!

 

[Towerguy]

In my view, if a knife is to be used in the kitchen on a regular basis none of them are worth $1,000. Not Carter, not Kato, not Shig. They are cutting implements and are meant to be used. They are not works of art.

 

[big_adventure]

In my view, if a knife is to be used in the kitchen on a regular basis none of them are worth $1,000. Not Carter, not Kato, not Shig. They are cutting implements and are meant to be used. They are not works of art.

This is definitely true, and I use every knife I own, no matter the price.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Me too though reach for some more than others. But don't care if persons buy expensive knives & don't use them. Heck I collect pre steam press large silver coins I'm not going to spend them nobody would know what they are.

A yanagiba cutting fish even though carbon will not react. After heavy use may want to polish up a bit. And keep it oiled if not using.

If you slice beef with it will react after a while.

 

[big_adventure]

What I should have said above is that I'll reach for any knife I have, no matter the price. I have knives worth "some" on up to "a lot." My current knifu is certainly over a thousand, but it's also the one I'm reaching for 75% of the time. That will change as more things come in and out of the collection, of course. And very few preps go by for me where I don't reach for at least 2 knives, just because I can and because I want to use them all.