Knife Japan: What's notable, worth buying, etc.?

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I don't understand Japanese but I think maybe this auto subtitle didn't translate correctly
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False_Cast said:
Last fall I told Michael that I wanted a 210 migaki, >50mm tall. After about a month he sent me this. 215x53. The edge is a continuous gentle curve, I think that's what people are referring to when they say they have belly. Aesthetically, I might've thought flatter would've been better (like a wat) but in practice it's actually kind of nice. There's something special about the grind and the heat treat. Here it is as it was new. After using it a while I ordered a ku 170 nakiri.
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Is this an Okubo? Oh, I've been wanting to try one of these all belly knives.
 
pitted_soul said:
Is this an Okubo? Oh, I've been wanting to try one of these all belly knives.
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It is an Okubo. I should've tagged you as I posted in reference to your question about the maker. The profile is great in practice and the belly "observation" (and accompanying negative inference) is way overblown; likely by the guys around here who stare at their knives instead of using them.



I'll also note that the octagonal ho/horn handles that come on them are wonderful.
 
False_Cast said:
It is an Okubo. I should've tagged you as I posted in reference to your question about the maker. The profile is great in practice and the belly "observation" (and accompanying negative inference) is way overblown; likely by the guys around here who stare at their knives instead of using them.



I'll also note that the octagonal ho/horn handles that come on them are wonderful.
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Looks really nice, I reached out to Michael about an okubo gyuto with similar specs a few days ago. Do you know the weight?
 
pitted_soul said:
Is this an Okubo? Oh, I've been wanting to try one of these all belly knives.
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My Munetoshi 240 is also one continuous curve. The older ones had more flat but for the past couple years they're like this curvy profile. It's odd, I had a Toyama 240 that was flatter, though still curvy without a "flat" spot, but the Munetoshi felt like it had an appreciably larger sweet-spot when push cutting. And obviously when rocking or doing a more slicey push-cut it just flows and dances on the board. I could see the Okubo being the same, the nakiri is kinda like that with more belly than most rectangles

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https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-kuchigane-santoku-180mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

Anyone bought one of these and can speak to the fit, finish, or anything else? I hate knives that are finished poorly and have parts jutting out of the handle, bolster, etc, or cut my hands up on the pinch grip.

Also, these are mono-steel, right?

edit: Reason for asking is I'm trying to decide between that knife and this Takamura: https://knifewear.com/products/takamura-akagouhan-santoku-165mm

edit2: Kind of crazy that the Takamura is 15mm shorter and is already an extremely light western-handled knife, they are both 47mm tall at the handle, but the Moriya is 5g LIGHTER. I wonder if someone measured something wrong.
 
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yoyoma said:
https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-kuchigane-santoku-180mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

Anyone bought one of these and can speak to the fit, finish, or anything else? I hate knives that are finished poorly and have parts jutting out of the handle, bolster, etc, or cut my hands up on the pinch grip.

Also, these are mono-steel, right?

edit: Reason for asking is I'm trying to decide between that knife and this Takamura: https://knifewear.com/products/takamura-akagouhan-santoku-165mm

edit2: Kind of crazy that the Takamura is 15mm shorter and is already an extremely light western-handled knife, they are both 47mm tall at the handle, but the Moriya is 5g LIGHTER. I wonder if someone measured something wrong.
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Knife Wear is usually much too expensive. You can do better if you go with the Takamura.

@TokushuKnife has them $20 cheaper list price and if you use KKF15 at check out you get another 15% off.
https://tokushuknife.com/products/takamura-migaki-sg2-170mm-santoku?_pos=1&_sid=0fe34b844&_ss=r

Carbon is sold out of the SG2 right now but have VG10 for $135.
https://carbonknifeco.com/search?q=takamura&options[prefix]=last

No experience with Moriya. You can email Michael with questions, he's great about responding. At that price I'm not sure how high I'd set my expectations on rounded choils and spines. But I think they're also OEM knives so they may be above average. I read it as mono steel. I think zenko means stamped.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
Knife Wear is usually much too expensive. You can do better if you go with the Takamura.

@TokushuKnife has them $20 cheaper list price and if you use KKF15 at check out you get another 15% off.
https://tokushuknife.com/products/takamura-migaki-sg2-170mm-santoku?_pos=1&_sid=0fe34b844&_ss=r

Carbon is sold out of the SG2 right now but have VG10 for $135.
https://carbonknifeco.com/search?q=takamura&options[prefix]=last

No experience with Moriya. You can email Michael with questions, he's great about responding. At that price I'm not sure how high I'd set my expectations on rounded choils and spines. But I think they're also OEM knives so they may be above average. I read it as mono steel. I think zenko means stamped.
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Thanks for the links - I believe Knifewear is still the cheapest with shipping + customs (and/or duties) taken into account, as I live in Canada.

The Moriya definitely does not have rounded choils. Is it hard to do myself?

I haven't seen the Moriya knife anywhere else, and it's made by a subsidiary of Hitachi Metals. I guess they decided why let blacksmiths and other companies take all the market when they can make the steel and the knife as well.
 
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yoyoma said:
Thanks for the links - I believe Knifewear is still the cheapest with shipping + customs (and/or duties) taken into account, as I live in Canada.

The Moriya definitely does not have rounded choils. Is it hard to do myself?

I haven't seen the Moriya knife anywhere else, and it's made by Hitachi Metals (or made by a company that is under their umbrella). It's a weird company in that it's the same company that makes the steel that makes the knife - I guess they decided why let blacksmiths and other companies take all the market when they can make the steel and the knife as well.
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Oh dang, sorry I missed that your in Canada. Looks like SHARP Knife Shop is out and Ai and Om's price is the same as Knifewear.

Rounding spines and choils is pretty dang easy with some sandpaper. A vice is a big help. For the choil you wrap some coarse sandpaper around a Sharpie or something and just experiment a bit. The spine is pretty direct and you can use shoe shine method.

It's not made directly by Hitachi but one of the companies they own.
 
Can anyone
HumbleHomeCook said:
Oh dang, sorry I missed that your in Canada. Looks like SHARP Knife Shop is out and Ai and Om's price is the same as Knifewear.

Rounding spines and choils is pretty dang easy with some sandpaper. A vice is a big help. For the choil you wrap some coarse sandpaper around a Sharpie or something and just experiment a bit. The spine is pretty direct and you can use shoe shine method.

It's not made directly by Hitachi but one of the companies they own.
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Thanks for your help - I'm leaning heavily towards grabbing the Moriya now. I like the idea of having a monosteel.

Separately, can anyone confirm that KnifeJapan's "weight in hand" measurement listed on any of their product pages lines up with how much it actually weighs? I'm having a really hard time believing this Moriya 180mm santoku, with a western handle, is actually 139g. I'm wondering if his "weight in hand" measurement is actually accurate compared to what you would get from using a kitchen weightscale.

edit: Actually, it's almost certainly wrong. The 160mm version of the same knife is listed as being 6g MORE than the 180mm version.
 
Which material is that santoku made of? Michael(owner of KnifeJapan) is usually accurate on the data, if it's 139g I would guess..a ginsan? For Ao/Shiro it would be close to 1g/cm

Edit to above edit 🤣: the posted one is also more expensive than 180mm though, probably make sense?
 
yoyoma said:
Can anyone


Thanks for your help - I'm leaning heavily towards grabbing the Moriya now. I like the idea of having a monosteel.

Separately, can anyone confirm that KnifeJapan's "weight in hand" measurement listed on any of their product pages lines up with how much it actually weighs? I'm having a really hard time believing this Moriya 180mm santoku, with a western handle, is actually 139g. I'm wondering if his "weight in hand" measurement is actually accurate compared to what you would get from using a kitchen weightscale.

edit: Actually, it's almost certainly wrong. The 160mm version of the same knife is listed as being 6g MORE than the 180mm version.
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I've had one knife from Michael that the weight was clearly off. The 160 to 180 comparison is obviously showing a disparagement. Just send Michael a polite email asking him for clarification.

@blokey has a thread going that you might want to look through:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/monosteel-western-handle-gyuto-discussion-thread.66021/
 
dragjp said:
Which material is that santoku made of? Michael(owner of KnifeJapan) is usually accurate on the data, if it's 139g I would guess..a ginsan? For Ao/Shiro it would be close to 1g/cm

Edit to above edit 🤣: the posted one is also more expensive than 180mm though, probably make sense?
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One is just the bigger version of the other, unless I'm missing something . Same knife line, same steel, same full tang handle.
 
SwampDonkey said:
Illustration of my patina comments on both Okubos an what I suspect will be similar on HHC's Sasaoka above. Patina forms on polished parts but the coarse grind marks kinda negate anything from forming. I turned down exposure to help highlight the differences:

View attachment 294722View attachment 294723View attachment 294724


Had to flex the alpaca socks for @BillHanna
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Nice socks. I have polished the grind marks of both nakiri and santuko - surprisingly easy for an amateur like me - patina comes along easily.
 
Once more on the Ikenami 240mm gyuto I bought (see #post226)
I managed to grind down the protruding heel somewhat so it is a non-issue now.

With its almost 240g over a length of 240mm, a heel of only 48mm and a spine of constant thickness, I realized the tip is way too thick though!
I literally had to push it quite heavily to make vertical cuts into an onion!

So what do you do with a knife that cost 300$ plus shipping plus 28% of total import cost
that does not perform very well?
Sell or send to knife-pimp-shop?
I decided for the latter and send it to a knifemaker here in germany (@Jaeger ) that i luckily found out about here at KKF.
I decided it would be too much work&money to grind it into having distal taper from heel to tip
but decided to work on the tip section only.
The taper Fabian applied starts at almost 10cm from the tip.
The last 5cm of the tip are really quite thin but not overly so.
(2mm thickness and 9g of metal were lost in the process)
For me he made the perfect choice between performance and still not overly fragile.
Also this is a very workhorsey knife/grind so a scalpel tip wouldn´t be the right choice.

The knife now performs magnificently with its tip especially.
Mid and heel sections were very good cutters already before
although Fabian did point out that the knife isn´t consistently convex but has flat and concave spots too.
See the pictures for a comparison of the tip before and after.
And a final picture of the knife with the satiny finish Fabian applied.

Although the knife in total ended up being quite expensive I absolutely feel it is worth its price in the end; mainly thanks to Fabian´s great "pimp job" so once more "thank you so much!!".

so what do/did we/i learn from this:

1. Obviously ask for more detailed specs before buying especially so if the knife is on the heavy side and the "distribution" of weight is unclear.
I mean, I could have guessed that a 1g/mm-knife with a heel height of only 48mm is going to be a thicc boy and also that the tip is going to be very thick considering a constant thickness of the spine.
2. A thick knife that lacks performance can be turned into something that performs extraordinarily if given to the right people.
Don´t give up on a knife, especially if you like almost all of its characteristics.
Give your local bladesmiths some business.
Chances are they will transform its performance and price/value-ratio into different heights.
3. alternatively rather get a custom knife right away that you know will have a good and consistent grind that also performs well.
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