KS v Shig

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bieniek said:
Why are we comparing soulful primadonna for 600 with soulless killer for 300??
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Because both were made to be used and not looked (and awe) at. Both are good knives, although different
Price here is besides the point., unless you have a budget.
 
I haven't tried the KS but I will say this about my Shig. I have some arthritis in my hands and wrists, and when it comes to chopping hard vegetables (carrots, potatoes, etc.) NONE of my knifes slide through things as easily as my Shig. Don't get me wrong--I have knives that do a bang-up jobs and cut beautifully with minimal effort, but with the Shig I actually find myself slowing down cuts because it just feels so amazingly smooth going through things that it's a pleasure to use--and NO pain in the wrists. I know it's not the comparison that you were looking for, but if I had to replace my Shig I wouldn't bat an eye at paying 2 or 3 times as much as the original cost--just because it's so much easier on my old bones.
 
I dont understand why would Bob Kramer be any kind of reference point. And then why you bother finishing your blades to a nice level if a same theoretical knife with deeper scratches cuts as well as the polished one?

Do those two knives work same way? I think price has much to do with it.

Just cut a bag of potatoes with both. ;) I would hate life after a bag of pots sliced with M.

If I like Masamotos edge better, the keenness is amazing and every masamoto knife I owned had it. The beast.

Not to say Shig is somehow handicapped in this aspect. Is getting scary, but there are different "grades of feeling"

Edge retention I recently stopped to care I have stones and I know how to use them so cannot help in comparison.
Easily could sharpen both every day but weekly is kind of a routine.

I dont care about what number steel is it, how much mactungsten and kosmobicarb it posess.

Finish well hehe nobody cares about that at masamotos, not even the boy that brings the handles. It suppose to cut and it does, but dont cut potatoes!! :tease:

Blade + handle or blade + love + handle, that is the question.
 
I see your point and in some ways I agree with you. I studied these knives (and cut with both) extensively and admit that both have influenced my work, though in different ways.

To say that one knife is so much better than another, or that another is clearly worse than the first, would be wrong. Each has strong and weak points.

Notice that I don't take sides in this discussion.

However, personally, on F&F I am clearly closer to Shigefusa than Masamoto. I think one has to offer a complete product, and F&F is a part of the package. On the profile, I am closer to Masamoto.



M
 
Marko's F&F is some of the very best I've seen. Absolutely beautiful knives.
 
And that is why we all want one Marko.

Let me be clear. There are multiple aesthetic parameters that coalesce into a beautiful knife, cutting, general attention to detail etc. I was merely trying to compare the cutting aesthetic elements together. I understand the greater elements of production are vastly different, and the prices reflect their fair market value to a large extent.
 
i really need to try a new Shig (mine was used, and has gone through many grind iterations). the KS is a good knife, but nothing all that special.
 
franzb69 said:
yep i think that was the thread i was talking about on that other forum
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the other forum seems to have no problem pointing out whatever supposed QC flaws shigs have, yet at the same time pushing products exclusive to Mark and preferably knives from the ******** line. infact, several of his cohorts do the arguing for him nowadays. they will naturally promote only **** products because its his forum, afterall. Mostly everything ive read there has a serious bias and you definitely made the right choice by looking for a second opinion.
 
labor of love said:
the other forum seems to have no problem pointing out whatever supposed QC flaws shigs have, yet at the same time pushing products exclusive to Mark and preferably knives from the ******** line. infact, several of his cohorts do the arguing for him nowadays. they will naturally promote only **** products because its his forum, afterall. Mostly everything ive read there has a serious bias and you definitely made the right choice by looking for a second opinion.
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I have seen many Shiges (probably fewer than Maxim, but still plenty). I didn't read the thread on the other forum, but I can tell you from my long admiration of Shigefusa - it doesn' get better than this on a fit and finish, grind, polish (kasumi is good but kitaeji is top notch) for a hand forged knife. The recent ones have been particularly good.

I have seen a tiny dip in the edge here and there, but relatively speaking, this is nothing. After a couple sharpening sessions, it will be gone, or you can reprofile the blade (a couple of passes on a diamond plate tip-to-heel to remove the dip) and cut a new bevel. Even after reprofiling, your edge will be thinner than of most knives on the market.

Masamoto will need a little bit of thinning 10mm or so above the edge (and at the edge) to get a better performance out of it, but it's not a bad knife. Profile is what makes it a performance knife, as well as thickness and weight.

M
 
bieniek said:
;) I would hate life after a bag of pots sliced with M.

It suppose to cut and it does, but dont cut potatoes!! :tease:

Blade + handle or blade + love + handle, that is the question.
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OMG too true. I chunked a 2 kg bag of larger Yukon Golds for potato salad last night. I was ready to hack my own hand off they were sticking so bad!
 
SameGuy said:
OMG too true. I chunked a 2 kg bag of larger Yukon Golds for potato salad last night. I was ready to hack my own hand off they were sticking so bad!
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hah, yeah, almost any of the simply ground monosteel knives like this are going to be like that. :)
 
SameGuy said:
OMG too true. I chunked a 2 kg bag of larger Yukon Golds for potato salad last night. I was ready to hack my own hand off they were sticking so bad!
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This forum has given me a whole new level of respect for you guys. I am ready to start whining after 8 or 10 spuds for a pot of potato soup!
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
Not all handmade knives are equal, and when it comes to fit, finish, grind, attention to detail and consistency (it's the only maker who spends work on a tang) Shigefusa is in the top 3 in my opinion. They definitely take a pride in their work. I have always admired that.
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Out of curiosity, who are the other two?
 
Mostly everything ive read there has a serious bias and you definitely made the right choice by looking for a second opinion.
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thanks. i prefer getting opinions from a lot of people.
 
I am curious with the discussion here. Generally are the KS and Shigefusa the two most commonly favourite gyuto knives from Japan? Are there popular rivals?
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
I see your point and in some ways I agree with you. I studied these knives (and cut with both) extensively and admit that both have influenced my work, though in different ways.

To say that one knife is so much better than another, or that another is clearly worse than the first, would be wrong. Each has strong and weak points.

Notice that I don't take sides in this discussion.

However, personally, on F&F I am clearly closer to Shigefusa than Masamoto. I think one has to offer a complete product, and F&F is a part of the package. On the profile, I am closer to Masamoto.



M
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Im trying not to take sides either. I like both brands, have knives from both, and would consider both when getting a knife[just bought masamoto mioroshi], but not the chefs knife.
Masamoto single bevel or a slicer.
Shigefusa every style expecially single bevels.

All I meant, we talk "gyuto", versatile, all round knife.
I dont know what shigefusa does worse than Masamoto, but I know that it does one thing better for sure, the potato ;)
 
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