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aikon2020

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The Takamura R2 and somewhat the VG10 version as well are lasers imo. But what more lasers are there out there? (that you can get in Europe)

Btw I feel that the Kurosaki AS 210 gyuto isn't a laser, more of a workhorse to my hands in feel.
 
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Not sure if Yoshikazu Tanaka’ knives falls into the laser category, but his knives cuts better than most lasers I have tried( Kono Hd2, GS+ Togatta, ma Makoto Sakura, Shibata Kotetsu, Carter apprentice slicer)
 
mikemac said:
Tadatsuna
IMHO, the original forum laser...maybe
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Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore)
 
Konosuke Fujiyama FT B#2 - they don't use this sharpener any longer but this knife is a true laser and holds an edge. I picked up a 240mm Gyuto and it will be with me until one of my off-springs gets it.
 
The big challenge in Europe is a lot of the 'usual' recommendations are hard / impossible to find in Europe. Import from US is usually cost-prohibitive due to shipping + import costs.... Japan is usually the better bet there, with at least shipping being cheaper, but you're still playing customs lottery.
For example the only retailer stocking Gingas in Europe is in Switzerland...which isn't part of the EU. :( Konosuke might be affordable at some retailers in the US but here in the EU the only sellers that stock them tend to be way overpriced.
Takamura is probably the most widely available and affordable if you don't mind a western handle.
 
DavidPF said:
Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore)
Click to expand...

Just a guess but generally...no
Rather, I think names of the past are more impacted by the 'New Black' phenomena and people chasing tulip bulbs.
Plus, a well sharpened knife will cut like a laser, and a dull laser will cut like shyte, so...
 
DavidPF said:
Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore)
Click to expand...
I think the answer is kinda, yes.

For example Kono HD used to be called a laser. Now days, people will fight you if you say Kono HD is a laser.
 
Lasers are fun. They have their own thing. That effortless and resistant free cutting feel is very different from anything else. Like cutting butter with a hot wire. Fun.
But if I need to blow thru a ton of stuff in no time I too will go for something more powerful.

The Shiro Kamo Arashi from CC should be pretty laser-ish. I mean with a blade hight of 55mm and blade length at 246mm and not with a ho wood handle, but rather with a heavier darker wood handle and still it weighs only 170g. There can't be much meat over those bones.
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knife...s/shiro-kamo-kurai/kamo_gyuto_sg2-3687-detail
The Shiro Kamo KU (Black Dragon) is also pretty thin but more of a thin middle weight. The Shiro Kamo Carbon Damascus is a bit thinner and could be thought as a laser. I've had four Kamo knives and two were thin middleweights and two very very thin lasers.

He makes most of his knives quite thin and you can always emphasis that by asking the vendor to pick out a thin one.
 
mikemac said:
Just a guess but generally...no
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Ruso said:
I think the answer is kinda, yes.
Click to expand...
toddnmd said:
Let’s take this outside . . .
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I hadn't been expecting this strong of a consensus this early. :D

mikemac said:
Plus, a well sharpened knife will cut like a laser, and a dull laser will cut like shyte, so...
Click to expand...
...so, the noob confusion between "laser" knives and "AHOALSTWIG"* knives?

* (A hell of a lot sharper than what I've got)
 
There is no official definition for a laser or mid weight or workhorse. It is mostly relative, so on the margins you get arguments. Some knives that are really thin are considered lasers, but a knife slightly thicker might be considered a thin mid weight, etc. For example, Miz KS is pretty thin, but definitely not a laser and some consider it a workhorse in the can do anything workhorse meaning, not super convex, thick, food release monster, even though it has surprisingly good food release. Or Kato standard vs Kato workhorse, different dimensions, but similar grinds so in this case the name doesn’t describe the grind, but difference in dimensions mostly.
 
Jovidah said:
The big challenge in Europe is a lot of the 'usual' recommendations are hard / impossible to find in Europe. Import from US is usually cost-prohibitive due to shipping + import costs.... Japan is usually the better bet there, with at least shipping being cheaper, but you're still playing customs lottery.
For example the only retailer stocking Gingas in Europe is in Switzerland...which isn't part of the EU. :( Konosuke might be affordable at some retailers in the US but here in the EU the only sellers that stock them tend to be way overpriced.
Takamura is probably the most widely available and affordable if you don't mind a western handle.
Click to expand...

I don't know if importing from Singapore is any better for Europeans, but Razorsharp seems to have a pretty good stock of Ashi Gingas. And they have the higher heat treat (61-62hrc) on the stainless models. Just nabbed a 180 petty from them, currently inbound.
 
Barmoley said:
... in the can do anything workhorse meaning, ...
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Yes, the words are all a bit fuzzy in the way they get used, but it's close enough. And a knife maker can intentionally blur the categories to hopefully make a knife that would appeal to more people at once.
 
i dont know what the actual definition of a lazor is but my jck r2 vortex damascus santoku is probably the thinnest knife i own.
also the akifusa srs15 are very thin. they feel kinda flimsy to be honest. but i guess they are hard to break.
 
DavidPF said:
Yes, the words are all a bit fuzzy in the way they get used, but it's close enough. And a knife maker can intentionally blur the categories to hopefully make a knife that would appeal to more people at once.
Click to expand...
In general close enough but not always, take Heiji for example, workhorse from a grind standpoint, good food release. Very hard heat treat and generally thin edge, so not a do anything bang around workhorse. There are others like that where the two uses of workhorse contradict each other. In this sense laser is more consistent, just open to some interpretation. It is normal when using one word to describe qualities of a complex object.
 
Barmoley said:
a do anything bang around workhorse
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Workhorse has two meanings, and I guess maybe beater also has two meanings. One of them seems pretty similar to this meaning of workhorse; the other is any knife being used in ways that reasonably might damage it, with little or no concern for whether the damage happens.
 
DavidPF said:
.....with little or no concern for whether the damage happens.
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No one cares about these by definition, nothing to discuss. Workhorse as a tough, harder to damage than usual knife is interesting. Too bad the other meaning is thicker, heavier with good food release because even though one knife could be both, it doesn’t have to be. In any case not a big deal once you have some context and experience. Can be confusing for people starting out though.

Getting back to lasers....some assume that laser has to be fragile since it is thinner, but this doesn’t have to be true either. Kitchen knives in general are not used in a way to break the knife itself and hard thin edges and tips break on any knife so you could have a tough laser and a fragile thick knife.

Then there are knives with dramatic taper that could act as a workhorse close to the heel and laser closer to the tip🤷‍♂️
 
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