Massdrop III: Kamon

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Awesome! Really great description Ben, I had not considered that grinding could itself temper the steel accidentally, but you are correct of course, and the water cooling (like an old Porsche engine) is the antidote

I am really looking forward to seeing the output🙏🙏🙏
 
I've got some mails regarding my latest post here and I thought my answer to especially one mail could be quite interesting and I'll even expand on that a little because I didn't mention some stuff in the answer to the guy writing me the mail but he'll see ;).

So the mail was along the lines that one can now better see how my forging is efficient compared to stock removal.

I just need to explain that this is true under the specs I set out to have on my knives. For example it probably won't make much sense if my knives were only 3mm thick at the thickest part (nothing wrong with that).
I want that heavy taper though so I'd need use 6mm blanks in stock removal technique and grind the whole blank down and a lot of material and belts along the way. Just to visualize that for you - I'd have to use about 3 times the steel with the stock removal process compared to what I'm using now and about 2/3rds of that would end up beeing steel wool. Carbon steel is nothing that drives the costs higher by an significant amount but stock removal would come with a lot of time spent on the grinder and also using up lots of belts and those two parts are very cost inefficient.
The belts are expensive on their own but my time is even more expensive so forging at the end of the day saves me time and you as a customer therefore costs to get to what I'd like you to have.

Also I want to expand a little on the forging process itself so you may get a better picture of that. It's easy for me by now and I guess it looks easy in the videos as I hear that quite often but what's happening is rather complicated and needs some practice to do.
No need to actually do the following at home but just to imagine: The plastic properties can be simulated at home with some play dough to get a feel for the difficulties. Now everyone knows how easy that stuff is to move to a certain shape but what you've got to do to really get a feel of the difficulties of forging is to try to move that stuff to a certain shape using only blacksmith style tools.
The steel obviously is harder to move too even when red hot but that's not where your problems come from, but only a time issue. So that makes no difference to the parts that are hard to do at forging but just increases time. The thing that makes forging hard is that you can't hold the blank with your hands and also just move the material with some very rudimentary shaped tools like hammers and dies. So a lot of thinking is involved but once you've got the process and steps figured out its quite easy.
As a side note also bear in mind that the different forging steps can't be executed in a random progression. There is a totally different and irreversible outcome if you, for example, draw the heel at a different time in relation to drawing out the blade and so on. So that's very important too.

Hope that draws a clearer picture for you and as always. Any questions welcome.
 
Go on holiday for a couple of months and you risk missing out. Just logged on today and saw this thread. Panic ensued at the thought of missing out. So much joy in realizing that entries haven't been finalized. It's like gambling but better.

Your timing is good - enjoy Ben’s videos and @nakiriknaifuwaifu will open up the order taking this week, after posting pricing - we will keep it open for several days so no one misses out

it’s end of August, and people should be getting back from holiday here in EU
 
Ya know I wish there was more opportunity to hear makers talk a bit about their process. That might be the best part of these “mass drops” bc whether I get picked or even if I don’t put my name in it’s a unique glimpse into the makers process.
 
Anticipation is enormous!!
Soon your wallet will be empty
And you soon find you can’t make rent
You end up homeless
Your wife divorces you for being a bum and can’t afford milk for the kids
You sleep in the rear of your car while some young punks steal your wheels in the middle of the knight.
But it’s ok, you have the most kickass knife on the planet 🙃🙃🙃

This is just a joke btw, well maybe not the first line.
 
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Soon your wallet will be empty
And you soon find you can’t make rent
You end up homeless
Your wife divorces you for being a bum and can’t afford milk for the kids
You sleep in the rear of your car while some young punks steal your wheels in the middle of the knight.
But it’s ok, you have the most kickass knife on the planet 🙃🙃🙃

This is just a joke btw, well maybe not the first line.
Sounds like business as usual for the Kiyoshi Kato aficionado.
 
It's easy for me by now and I guess it looks easy in the videos as I hear that quite often but what's happening is rather complicated and needs some practice to do.

That’s the thing.

Even highly complex accomplishments can look easy when performed by an expert. Look at ball room dancing, for instance. Doesn’t look that hard, does it? Or to stay with something most of us can relate to: cooking. Try making omu rice yourself and see how those first attempts turn out. 🤣



I know from my own field that things can look super easy and like all that is required are a few minutes, when seen from the outside. But this comes on the background of a lot of work to being able to do it. And, yes, once there it’s indeed easy (well - sometimes). 🤠
 
That’s the thing.

Even highly complex accomplishments can look easy when performed by an expert. Look at ball room dancing, for instance. Doesn’t look that hard, does it? Or to stay with something most of us can relate to: cooking. Try making omu rice yourself and see how those first attempts turn out. 🤣



I know from my own field that things can look super easy and like all that is required are a few minutes, when seen from the outside. But this comes on the background of a lot of work to being able to do it. And, yes, once there it’s indeed easy (well - sometimes). 🤠


Exactly - this is how it is in every field or activity ever. Things generally look really easy when the person performing the activity is already good at it. Take, oh, surfing: watch John John Florence paddling into big Pipe: he lines up, takes what looks like 3 paddles, drops, stands, turns, gets barreled, shoots out. It looks like anyone could do it. Trust me, they cannot. Not even close. Watch an NFL kicker nail a 40 yard field goal. Looks like your handicapped kid sister could go 8/10. Now go try it yourself.

@KAMON Knives is a pro and it shows in how easy it looks when he does this stuff.
 
Knives that he releases thru his newsletter are expensive but are much cheaper than the prices you see from online retailers.
Definitely, the example he posted that recently sold via his newsletter was €592, roughly $700.00 USD. Not a denty finish, but same handle style and drastically less than the resale prices for some other retailers.

After finally obtaining a Kamon gyuto from BST, I was blown away by it. It made everything else I own seem diminished by comparison. For the right Kamon, I'd gladly pay more than twice this price because nothing else I've tried feels as comfortable or nimble in the hand for a 260mm gyuto. That said, if this it out of your price range, go buy one of Andrei Markin's knives. They're amazing in their own right.
 
Alright ladies and germs,
It’s finally time to open the sign-ups.
Firstly, a massive thank you to @KAMON Knives for this massdrop. We’re incredibly excited to work with him.


HERE IS IMPORTANT INFO ON SHIPPING/PRICE DETAILS AND HOW TO SIGN UP FOR ORDERS:
please read this and then read it again

I’m serious, read it again!

Here is a recap of the knife specifications:


Knife: Kamon Kurouchi Denty Wa Gyuto

Size: 225mm x 56mm <or> 260mm x 58mm
Steel: 1.2519 monosteel construction taken to 65 HRC
Grind: Convexed to zero (with a thin beveled edge) and a strong distal taper – workhorse in the back, skeleton thin in the front

Handle: removable rokkaku hanmaru construction in bog oak with heirloom aluminum fixtures

PE Saya will be included



Pricing:


Size (mm)Price (Euros)
225 x 56595
260 x 58630

PLEASE NOTE – THESE ARE PRICES FROM KAMON AND DO NOT INCLUDE SHIPPING, VAT, OR CUSTOMS


THEY DO NOT INCLUDE VAT (where it applies) SHIPPING OR CUSTOMS!!!!!!!!!!

please please please calculate accordingly


Shipping:

Part of the advantage of these massdrop projects is streamlining things for the smith so they can focus on making the greatest knives they can. Partly for this reason, we will have a maximum of 3 invoices for each of 3 regions: The Americas, Europe, and APAC.


Approximate (READ: APPROXIMATE) duty and S&H fees will be: ~10 - 12% to EU distributor, ~11% to US distributor, and ~10% to APAC distributor. This does not include shipping from distributor to you. Specific shipping costs will be calculated when packages are ready for shipment.

Europe Distributor:
@RockyBasel


American Distributor: @nakiriknaifuwaifu

Asia/Pacific Distributor:
@lemeneid


Not sure about Brexit, we will dump that tea cross that bridge when we get there.

Payment:


As stated above there will be a total of three invoices – one for each of the distributors – because we need the customs paperwork to align with the invoice as they are shipped out.

For this reason, we need one person fulfill each of the invoices - Rocky has agreed to take on this role for us.

We will send an update with further payment instructions closer to the date of completion.







With that, I’d like to open the signups!

Here's how they will work:

Please message me (@nakiriknaifuwaifu) your information in this
~ E X A C T ~
format:





Title of message: "ORDER - Kamon Massdrop"


Region (NA/EU/APAC):
Country:
Size: "225mm" or "260mm" (there's no cap on sizes, these knives will be made for you)







INFO ON SELECTION: Participants will be randomly chosen (everyone is assigned a number and selected using random.org)

If you are selected, please treat this as ordering a custom knife (because that’s what this is!). We understand if there are circumstances forcing you to withdraw your order - it's still COVID time and that's what the waitlist is for - but for all other cases please try your best to adhere to the honor system.

We will confirm payment when the orders are close to done. Specific shipping costs will be calculated when payment time comes near.

Thanks,
NKW
:dancingcow:





~IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT~

SIGN-UPS WILL CLOSE FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 3RD 11:59 PM CET (Central European Standard Time - GMT +1)



Results will be made available shortly thereafter!

Please continue to follow this thread for further updates and cool videos!


My posts are the colorful ones - easy to find and easy to read!


Thank you all for your support so far!
 
Nice one NKN et all the Massdrop peeps, I salute your primaty coloured email and have hereby sent a prosaic, formatted email in hope as requested.

As a Brit, I should be an expert at queuing respectfully. But I am also a chupsty caribbean Londoner bum, of the rushing variety. Protect that pineapple,,,
 
Good luck everyone putting their names in the hat. Ben's knives are stunning. You won't be disappointed.
 
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