Monosteel western handle Gyuto discussion thread

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blokey said:
Some Robert Herder stuff, quite nice, all nicely thin, the school on K5 is kind misleading since the edge is quite thinner than it suggests. Only thing is I accidentally peeled off a corned right off the bat… not sure if this is the problem @Jovidah talked about… But over all the handle is surprisingly nice, I thought it would be too thin but it fits nicely, the blade is well grounded and cuts good, slightly better than 180mm Goko in sweet potato even. (Very little margin tho) Buckels is fun and almost razor grind.
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Don't sleep on that little breakfast knife. It's a razor sharp butter knife. Genius!
 
blokey said:
Anyone tried Coutellerie Chambriard? They honestly looks really nice, 14c28n is a good steel, but there’s very little information here
https://strataportland.com/products...fe-juniper-handle?_pos=7&_sid=259b55d69&_ss=r

Edit: found that they list their 14c28n at 57-59, not very hard but probably pretty tough, should be better than the usual x50 stuff…
https://www.coutellerie-chambriard.com/en/knives/the-grands-gourmets-kitchen-serie/?cn-reloaded=1
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I happen to know 14C28N as used by two Thiers makers: at 60Rc by K-Sabatier, and by Goyon-Chazeau at 58Rc. Have called it AEB-L on steroids: fine grained, without the buttery feeling, both on stones and on the board. The only stainless I know that feels like a good carbon.
 
Benuser said:
I happen to know 14C28N as used by two Thiers makers: at 60Rc by K-Sabatier, and by Goyon-Chazeau at 58Rc. Have called it AEB-L on steroids: fine grained, without the buttery feeling, both on stones and on the board. The only stainless I know that feels like a good carbon.
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Agree.

I've had a Ksab 200 series 180 mm chef knife in 14C28N for some time, and used it a lot. First it seemed a bit uninteresting, not much fuss about it. The fit&finish was descent, but it was slightly bend(still is)

After a good thinning and sharpening it turned out to be a great little chef knife with a nice profile and a really nice edge retention. The steel seems pretty tough and I have experienced no chipping👍
 
panda said:
but how is the knife?
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Couldn't be happier with it! As others have said, it's nice and thin behind the edge. Balance is just where I want it to be, just forward of the bolster.

Fit and finish is a bit rougher: (what I believe are) marks from thinning are not quite polished out, there are little details with the handle and tang that could be refined, there are still pretty deep scratches on the bolster from when it was ground, and as you can probably see from my photos, the knife arrived with a bit of discoloration/patina from shipping, I would guess.

None of this bothers me, though. I am excited to really put it through it's paces. I wanted a workhorse of a knife, something I didn't need to feel precious about, but that still performed well. Seems to fit the bill perfectly.

This is my first mono-steel gyuto, and something that surprised me is that it sounds totally different than my other knives. If you tap it, it rings like a bell. So nice! My san-mai knives all have a dull clink to them instead.
 
Quick thinning to get the Goko to cut apples without splitting. Almost there...

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Cliff said:
Is it me, or does that choil shot make it look much less asymmetrical than they used to be?
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The right side still looks very convexed and the left side relatively flat, I think they just cut the edge bevel on the left side at the heel at a lower angle so the choil ends up looking more symmetrical. You can see in the first picture how the bevel is noticeably wider at the heel.

They usually cut the final edge on a wheel or belt from the factory so it’s easy to slip up a bit and the edge bevel ends up wider at the tip/heel a lot of the time with these knives, especially the more budget, higher production ones like Masahiro. I’ve had it on Misonos, Tojiros, Macs, etc and a bunch of vintage knives.
 
kpham12 said:
The right side still looks very convexed and the left side relatively flat, I think they just cut the edge bevel on the left side at the heel at a lower angle so the choil ends up looking more symmetrical. You can see in the first picture how the bevel is noticeably wider at the heel.

They usually cut the final edge on a wheel or belt from the factory so it’s easy to slip up a bit and the edge bevel ends up wider at the tip/heel a lot of the time with these knives, especially the more budget, higher production ones like Masahiro. I’ve had it on Misonos, Tojiros, Macs, etc and a bunch of vintage knives.
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This seems to be the case. See photos which show this in better detail.
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Some main stream stainless stuff, Glestain and Masahiro MV, the Glestain is very asymmetrical, the grind is not as thick as the chili but still thick, cuts better than a Wusthof pro but not Kagayaki/Kazutada, steel is more on tough side, not the best to sharpen, great food release tho, more like a Japanese version of heavy duty western chef.

Masahiro MV Honyaki is thinner than the last more, closer to a VC, the choil is thicker but actual grind is ok, still not the best, but cuts fine out of the box, steel feels pretty good on stone, not sloppy or sticky, thinned a bit for sale in the future.

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After some work
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Just picked up this big gal, I saw the spine thickness and knew I had to have it. 5mm, 350g, and cuts surprisingly well. Someone has done a bit of work to it (super polished edge), but I plan on a bit more after using it for a bit. Would love to hear your thoughts @blokey regarding profile.

If anyone had any ideas regarding the knife maker or any other info, I'd love to know, my kanji is non existent unfortunately!

I got this from a very small site Chef and a Knife, they have heaps of well priced vintage western monos, great if you're in Aus and used to price gouging (no I'm not affiliated in any way, just very happy!) https://chefandaknife.com.au/collections/vintage
 

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binboy said:
Just picked up this big gal, I saw the spine thickness and knew I had to have it. 5mm, 350g, and cuts surprisingly well. Someone has done a bit of work to it (super polished edge), but I plan on a bit more after using it for a bit. Would love to hear your thoughts @blokey regarding profile.

If anyone had any ideas regarding the knife maker or any other info, I'd love to know, my kanji is non existent unfortunately!

I got this from a very small site Chef and a Knife, they have heaps of well priced vintage western monos, great if you're in Aus and used to price gouging (no I'm not affiliated in any way, just very happy!) https://chefandaknife.com.au/collections/vintage
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Looks kind like Takahashi to me, I got two of them, one still in process of restoration. You can try it on store, both of mine are quite hard.
IMG_3085.jpeg

refcast said:
https://cressonblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/blog-post_20.html
picture of masakane factory and some info

a lot of kitchen knife info on this blog, specifically on 高橋刃物製作所. Takahashi cutlery or mitsutomo, a specialist for gyuto.

I think this is my favorite blog I've found so far. A lot of gyuto history or manufacturing and OEM work described. So ****ing cool. Absolutely amazing to me. The manufacturer closed in 2013.

https://cressonblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/blog-post_30.html

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@refcast should know more about it
 
binboy said:
Just picked up this big gal, I saw the spine thickness and knew I had to have it. 5mm, 350g, and cuts surprisingly well. Someone has done a bit of work to it (super polished edge), but I plan on a bit more after using it for a bit. Would love to hear your thoughts @blokey regarding profile.

If anyone had any ideas regarding the knife maker or any other info, I'd love to know, my kanji is non existent unfortunately!

I got this from a very small site Chef and a Knife, they have heaps of well priced vintage western monos, great if you're in Aus and used to price gouging (no I'm not affiliated in any way, just very happy!) https://chefandaknife.com.au/collections/vintage
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BTW that site is really good, lots of nice stuff, thanks
 
blokey said:
Looks kind like Takahashi to me, I got two of them, one still in process of restoration. You can try it on store, both of mine are quite hard.
View attachment 300881

@refcast should know more about it
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They do look very similar, will be interesting to see what @refcast thinks. The four kanji on your top knife do look the same as mine, little bit hard to tell though. Will give it a session on the stones when I'm back home next week!
 
blokey said:
Some Robert Herder stuff, quite nice, all nicely thin, the school on K5 is kind misleading since the edge is quite thinner than it suggests. Only thing is I accidentally peeled off a corned right off the bat… not sure if this is the problem @Jovidah talked about… But over all the handle is surprisingly nice, I thought it would be too thin but it fits nicely, the blade is well grounded and cuts good, slightly better than 180mm Goko in sweet potato even. (Very little margin tho) Buckels is fun and almost razor grind.
View attachment 299357View attachment 299358View attachment 299359
Click to expand...
I can't say I ever had corners break off (or saw that it was a common thing), but the more common mode of failure is that eventually that little protruding front corner of the wood gets moisture (for example from cleaning) , dries out again, and the cycles eventually get some shrinkage that pulls the wood slightly off the handle there, so you get a bit of a gap. It's mostly a cosmetical issue.
 
blokey said:
Anyone tried Coutellerie Chambriard? They honestly looks really nice, 14c28n is a good steel, but there’s very little information here
https://strataportland.com/products...fe-juniper-handle?_pos=7&_sid=259b55d69&_ss=r

Edit: found that they list their 14c28n at 57-59, not very hard but probably pretty tough, should be better than the usual x50 stuff…
https://www.coutellerie-chambriard.com/en/knives/the-grands-gourmets-kitchen-serie/?cn-reloaded=1
Click to expand...
The few knives I had in 14c28n were nice steel.
My main concern with that would be the handle design. That downward curve is similar to what you see on the Wüsthof classic Ikon and I absolutely hate it there, starts hurting my wrist after using it for a while.
 
HappyamateurDK said:
Agree.

I've had a Ksab 200 series 180 mm chef knife in 14C28N for some time, and used it a lot. First it seemed a bit uninteresting, not much fuss about it. The fit&finish was descent, but it was slightly bend(still is)

After a good thinning and sharpening it turned out to be a great little chef knife with a nice profile and a really nice edge retention. The steel seems pretty tough and I have experienced no chipping👍
Click to expand...
Yeah the KSab 200 series are actually quite nice knives for the price, but there seems to be a significant chance of getting one with a warp or a bend. They don't make a fuss about exchanging it, but you have to absolutely make sure to check upon receipt because there's definitly a chance that the first one you get won't be entirely straight.

It's a shame because other than that I quite like them, and they could be a great 'normie-knife' for people who rockchop.
The 180 slicer is actually my favorite knife for trimming meats.

I think the main reason they fly under the radar is that the design is absolutely boring.
 
blokey said:
Yeah that would be a concern too, I saw a similar failure to mine here
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/herder-windmühleknives-k2-knife-review.20066/
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It doesn't help that they deliver the handles steamed but essentially low on oil. I've always just dumped them in a mineral oil bath for a few days and that seems to have prevented the worst of this to happen.
My gut feeling is that in the long term you'll want to treat it with something that doesn't wash out as easily like some board butter or something like tung oil.

This is also why I'm inclined to recommend POM handles on the K-series instead, since that sidesteps the issue.
 
Aritsugu super alloy 270 Gyuto, this thing is hard, pretty wear resistant feel on stone, the edge is quite coarse for some reason, I don’t know if it is the same steel as the old Type A, initial grind reminds me more of a vintage old gyuto, not bad. But the steel is not my cup of tea, I will put this on sell later, if anyone’s interested. Thinned a bit but still close to the original grind which is not bad at all.
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blokey said:
Some main stream stainless stuff, Glestain and Masahiro MV, the Glestain is very asymmetrical, the grind is not as thick as the chili but still thick, cuts better than a Wusthof pro but not Kagayaki/Kazutada, steel is more on tough side, not the best to sharpen, great food release tho, more like a Japanese version of heavy duty western chef.
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What do you think of that Glestain's handle?
 
Jovidah said:
Yeah the KSab 200 series are actually quite nice knives for the price, but there seems to be a significant chance of getting one with a warp or a bend. They don't make a fuss about exchanging it, but you have to absolutely make sure to check upon receipt because there's definitly a chance that the first one you get won't be entirely straight.

It's a shame because other than that I quite like them, and they could be a great 'normie-knife' for people who rockchop.
The 180 slicer is actually my favorite knife for trimming meats.

I think the main reason they fly under the radar is that the design is absolutely boring.
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I was considering returning it because of the slightly warped blade.

In the end I chose not to because I just didn't think it was that much. And it doesn't effect cutting or sharpening In any way. For me it only bother my eyes. But no doubt it is an issue sabatierK should try to work on forward on. I do however fear that the warping would have bin worse on a 25 cm chef knife compared to my 18 cm.

I kind of like the boring look of it. But that's a thing I got with knives. I do prefer funktion over look. I bit more attention to detail. And they would make a really great knife instead of a good knife.
 
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