Moritaka on Rakuten International

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What gets me is the way the tang is welded to the blade.
 
Dave Martell said:
What happens is the maker grinds the bevels from the blade face down towards the cutting edge and stops just before he breaks into the edge. If he spends too much time grinding, or is heavy handed, in one section this is an overgrind on the side of the knife that extends down to the edge but because he stops short of blowing through into the edge it isn't seen. Now along comes the knife owner who removes metal at the edge through sharpening and he breaks through into the overgrind and the hole appears and does nothing but grow bigger from this point forward.
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WOW - thanks for pointing this out Dave!

I've got a 270 kirit-gyuto that I've ground the bevels a lot on trying to flatten them, and I've developed a hole in the edge just in front of the heel - and it's quite long. I noticed it quite a while ago when slicing things like scallions, chilis or basil very very thinly - I was getting the accordion thing where the knife wasn't cutting all the way through to the board. I thought I wasn't sharpening properly; at first I thought my knife was dull, then I noticed the high spot, or hole as you call it. So I set about trying to fix the hole and flatten the edge. The heel is the low point, so I started there, and tried to isolate the hole on either side. I got it a little better, but I can still see a bit of light coming through when the edge is flat on the board and it stills accordion's a little.

For the price of these knives, I'm not too disappointed though. There are not many knives out there that use AS steel, and to get a knife hardened to that level (64-65) you typically have to pay considerably more. What bugs me more about them is how insanely reactive the cladding is - the kuro finish has nearly worn completely off mine, and if I let that blade sit for a minute w/ a little wetness on it from anything, it'll start to rust. And it stinks bad when cutting some foods, especially cabbage and onions. I have no problems on the cutting edge, just the cladding. I've tried to force a patina on it, but haven't had much luck yet.
 
That 'conversation'/thread Dave had about Moritaka's on the other forum(2009?) was the reason I took a closer look at my knives,and he was 100% correct.But it's too late for me to do anything about it except try and correct the problem.I might take the knives back to the shop where I purchased them and see if he can do anything for me.
 
I was just about to ask the same question.Is it the aesthetics of it or should I be worried about it snapping off somewhere down the road? :(
 
For me it aesthetics. I haven't heard complaints about them breaking or anything. Just looks kinda weird.
 
Salty dog said:
For me it aesthetics. I haven't heard complaints about them breaking or anything. Just looks kinda weird.
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Well that's good to hear.I personally don't mind the look of it,but to each their own..
 
shankster said:
That 'conversation'/thread Dave had about Moritaka's on the other forum(2009?) ....
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I think it may have been earlier...'07 - '08 maybe? I cannot access the other forum from work. but one of my thoughts about fixing these...One method of making these knives is to insert a small piece of AS steel into a slot in the iron (Moritaka shows this on his site), and then continue forging and flattening the billet (?) You'ld end up with more of a "taco' construction, and less of a 'sandwich'. My concern would be how much AS is there in the lower protion of the blade to grind away while you're trying to fix the hole
 
mikemac said:
One method of making these knives is to insert a small piece of AS steel into a slot in the iron (Moritaka shows this on his site), and then continue forging and flattening the billet (?) You'ld end up with more of a "taco' construction, and less of a 'sandwich'. My concern would be how much AS is there in the lower protion of the blade to grind away while you're trying to fix the hole
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I once did a thinning job for Fish on his Moritaka kiritsuke and I found out how little the AS core extended up into the blade when the core separated from the cladding. I believe there was about 1/2" of core.
 
Dave Martell said:
I once did a thinning job for Fish on his Moritaka kiritsuke and I found out how little the AS core extended up into the blade when the core separated from the cladding. I believe there was about 1/2" of core.
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damn.
 
Dave Martell said:
I once did a thinning job for Fish on his Moritaka kiritsuke and I found out how little the AS core extended up into the blade when the core separated from the cladding. I believe there was about 1/2" of core.
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Sorry Dave but I'm a newbie to all this so I have to ask.Does this mean that there's no way to fix the hole or is it not worth the hassle?
 
This would be very drastic, but if the hole is really close to the heel, couldn't the owner regrind a new choil and extend the neck a bit? This would shorten the useable edge, but at least they wouldn't have the constant reminder of a very good knife going bad.
 
shankster said:
Sorry Dave but I'm a newbie to all this so I have to ask.Does this mean that there's no way to fix the hole or is it not worth the hassle?
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There's plenty of ways to mask it but no way to really fix it.

If you want to see how bad it's overground lay a straight edge (not a ruler - they're not straight) along the bevel just above the edge and look for light. You can usually see it this way very clearly, this is what has been removed from the knife which can't be put back on.
 
Lefty said:
This would be very drastic, but if the hole is really close to the heel, couldn't the owner regrind a new choil and extend the neck a bit? This would shorten the useable edge, but at least they wouldn't have the constant reminder of a very good knife going bad.
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It's never that small of an area, it's usually a 2"-4" long problem.
 
BTW, Moritaka isn't exclusive to doing this, many makers do it - just at a lesser extent. Keep your eyes open when you get a new knife, you might be surprised what you see when you look closer.
 
Dave Martell said:
There's plenty of ways to mask it but no way to really fix it.

If you want to see how bad it's overground lay a straight edge (not a ruler - they're not straight) along the bevel just above the edge and look for light. You can usually see it this way very clearly, this is what has been removed from the knife which can't be put back on.
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Thanks for the honest feedback Dave,I appreciate it.
 
Dave Martell said:
BTW, Moritaka isn't exclusive to doing this, many makers do it - just at a lesser extent. Keep your eyes open when you get a new knife, you might be surprised what you see when you look closer.
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Are Takeda's and better than Moritaka's? Takeda's knives seem to be about $130 more, or 60%, for a 270 gyuto - are they worth the extra price?
 
mpukas said:
Are Takeda's and better than Moritaka's? Takeda's knives seem to be about $130 more, or 60%, for a 270 gyuto - are they worth the extra price?
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I won't say that Takedas are without problems but in regards to overgrinds they have no issues.
 
Try Yamawaku. Far as I know there are no issues. I have one and it seems like a really well-made knife, if you can get past that plastic ferrule/collar. You can even order a custom in whatever length you want.

Btw, I have a Moritaka but it hasn't been sharpened extensively because it just hasn't needed it so if mine has issues, I am none the wiser so far. But I did ask them to take extra, extra care with the grind and make sure I got a straight edge and Akiko promised - so I'm hoping they came through for me. But then mine was a custom order (260mm in Blue #2 w octagonal handle). And boy it cuts like a bastid!

PS: this might not be widely known but another famous maker who accepts custom orders is Ashi Hamono. And it has to be emphasised that Ashi-san is reknowned for turning out flawless blades as a matter of pride and reputation. I have a made-to-order Ashi Hamono Ginga chuka bocho (225mm x 110mm x 2.5mm) in White#2 and it's fan-freaking-tastic. I am thinking of ordering a chuka 205mm x 95mm x 1.8-2.0mm in Swedish AEB-L hardened to 59-61.

PPS: this is Seb, btw.
 
mpukas said:
Are Takeda's and better ....
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Personally, I've always felt that Takeda delivers an incredible edge, surrounded by a marginal knife pushing the boundries of 'rustic'. Of the 4 or 5 I've owned, everyone had warping from heel to tip and spine to edge...looking down the knife you could see the blade veer both left and right. Suprisingly, the worst was a nakiri, and the least effected was a chuka.
Doesn't make sense condsidering the amount of steel in each.

In fairness, I had 'issues' with Takeda which really started when I purchased a TomoeNata, so to avoid any continuing bad mojo, I've sold all my Takedas...except the stupid Tomoe Nata (anybody want to buy one?)
 
It's always surprising to hear about the issues a number of folks have had with Takeda's knives. Perhaps I've just been very fortunate, since all of mine have been a-ok.
 
The normal cycle of an "It" knife. The discovery is made. Takeda was discovered approximately six years ago. They were an excellent knife at a great price. Andy picked up his cleaver for around $200.00, a similar cleaver today is pushing $500.00. More and more people purchase them. Then comes the issues. In Takeda's case it was handles not aligned correctly with the knife, oddly shaped knives, globs of epoxy, on the tang, and toothy edge. The maker's bubble is popped, and the search begins for the next "It", maker

Mizuno - grinding issues on the choil.

Moritaka - over grinding issues.

Aritsugu - edge grinding issues.

Carter - self promotional newsletter with political\religious views.

Wattanbe - very reactive iron cladding. Lack of flexibility in customizing knives.

Tadatsuna - They were the definition of laser. I never heard of any issues, but people have moved on.


A common thread in the issues phase, is customer service. There seems to be a disconnect, between east and west. Knives that are unacceptable to western users, are acceptable in the east. Western buyers are put off by the lack of apologies from the eastern makers, for their time and trouble. It's hard to apologize when you don't feel that you have done anything wrong. I also think that the concept of apology is different in the east, then in the west.

There is enough difference between east and west, that I'll go through a middle man, who understands what westerners want and how to obtain it form the east. Also if there is a problem, I know it will be resolved.

Jay
 
jaybett said:
The normal cycle of an "It" knife. The discovery is made. Takeda was discovered approximately six years ago. They were an excellent knife at a great price. Andy picked up his cleaver for around $200.00, a similar cleaver today is pushing $500.00. More and more people purchase them. Then comes the issues. In Takeda's case it was handles not aligned correctly with the knife, oddly shaped knives, globs of epoxy, on the tang, and toothy edge. The maker's bubble is popped, and the search begins for the next "It", maker

Mizuno - grinding issues on the choil.

Moritaka - over grinding issues.

Aritsugu - edge grinding issues.

Carter - self promotional newsletter with political\religious views.

Wattanbe - very reactive iron cladding. Lack of flexibility in customizing knives.

Tadatsuna - They were the definition of laser. I never heard of any issues, but people have moved on.


A common thread in the issues phase, is customer service. There seems to be a disconnect, between east and west. Knives that are unacceptable to western users, are acceptable in the east. Western buyers are put off by the lack of apologies from the eastern makers, for their time and trouble. It's hard to apologize when you don't feel that you have done anything wrong. I also think that the concept of apology is different in the east, then in the west.

There is enough difference between east and west, that I'll go through a middle man, who understands what westerners want and how to obtain it form the east. Also if there is a problem, I know it will be resolved.

Jay
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So the more they pump out,the sloppier they get.Lack of Q.C....
 
shankster said:
So the more they pump out,the sloppier they get.Lack of Q.C....
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Takeda existed as a company, long before they were discovered by members of ITK. The early members of ITK, such as Fish, Lee, C-Dawg, Andy, etc..., had some serious cajones. They'd surf the internet, find a maker, and if they liked what they saw send an international postal money order and then wait months for the knife to be shipped.

The dynamics on ITK with an "it", maker, was post after post filled with hyperbole. My knife is so sharp, that it cuts molecules. Food jumps out of its way. Imagine a person new to Japanese knives, buys a knife from an "it" maker. The knife arrives, and it has problems. They are going to wonder if the problem is them or the knife? When somebody finally bursts the hyperbole, their is a slew of complaints.

My sense, in other words speculation is that at the end of the day, Japanese knife makers, sort their knives by quality. There is a market for people who want a good piece of steel, that quickly go through knives, so they don't want to pay a lot. They are willing to deal with problems that comes with inexpensive knives, such as poor fit and finish, and grinding issues.

The window for what is considered acceptable is much smaller in the west, then it is in Japan. Typically the problems have occurred, when people ordered directly from the maker. Koki with JCK, has mentioned in e-mails, that delays in shipping are due to troubles acquiring a good knife from the maker.

One buyer was told that Koki had to send back a knife three times, before he got a good one. The buyer eventually had a fire sale and I picked up this knife. Fit and finish were average.

My experiences, plus what I have read, just reinforces, that I will gladly go through a middle man. They know what people in the west want, and can take care of problems.

Jay
 
mikemac said:
Personally, I've always felt that Takeda delivers an incredible edge, surrounded by a marginal knife pushing the boundries of 'rustic'. Of the 4 or 5 I've owned, everyone had warping from heel to tip and spine to edge...looking down the knife you could see the blade veer both left and right. Suprisingly, the worst was a nakiri, and the least effected was a chuka.
Doesn't make sense condsidering the amount of steel in each.

In fairness, I had 'issues' with Takeda which really started when I purchased a TomoeNata, so to avoid any continuing bad mojo, I've sold all my Takedas...except the stupid Tomoe Nata (anybody want to buy one?)
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I woudn't worry about warping issues with Takedas since they are so malleable, you can just bend back with your fingers.
 
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