New sharpening station inputs and pics requested

[DSChief]

How do you like your Coote? I couldn't say enough good things about mine. Yeah it's simple but very sturdy and reliable, runs super smooth too.

Love the Coote, But the real star of the show is the reversible, variable speed Motor Controller.

I haven't done any edge work on my knives with it. But have experimented with thinning a couple of German style blades, By running Low Rpm's & Laying the blade Flat against the Platen. Attempting to turn an Almond shaped cross-section into a Blade of Grass. Have repaired a couple of broken tips
with decent results for a beginner.

 

[goatgolfer]

I sit when I sharpen. My set up is a very expensive adjustable height dog grooming table with a dedicated true daylight lamp/magnifier. I have a half height cinder block sitting on the table to give me the correct height and table clearance. This table has been through the ringer over the years and it's still holding strong. I like this a lot because it's mobile and VERY sturdy - no wobble at all - unlike every other table I've ever used.

Don't know how I missed this ancient quote but it shows one Pro's stone selection. http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...harpening-Equipment-for-you?highlight=suehiro

 

[zitangy]

Prefer standing up as i believe that if i sit.. the stone and knife wld be ard chest level whilst standing up.. it wld be ard waist level and hence more weight of hand on the knife and can exert more when desired.. I have more flexibility in playing with the pressure applied on the knife to the stone.

If i am just stropping it.. stone or leather ... it doesnt not make a diff.

rgds d

 

[brooksie967]

Standing is the way to go! I just use my stone holder and throw a towel under it usually. If i'm going to be doing a lot of steel removal on a busted knife or rusty mess then I'll get some kind of tray like have been shown to collect all the junk

 

[goatgolfer]

Standing is the way to go! I just use my stone holder and throw a towel under it usually. If i'm going to be doing a lot of steel removal on a busted knife or rusty mess then I'll get some kind of tray like have been shown to collect all the junk

I don't really have a strong opinion about sitting or standing [not enough experience, that's why I started the thread] and Dave M. has commented about his ability to change the height of his work to accommodate sitting. But, it seems to me that sinks don't generally go up and down but cambros can if you just keep putting books under the table legs or cinder blocks under the stone.

So, no one has said WHY they prefer or must use sit/stand and if they had a choice. As a plant engineer doing process stuff (and kitchen work) making the work at bent elbow height was the least tiring but not necessarily the best leverage for long sessions. And, then you have the positive or negative angle of the stone. Is that a leverage issue or [it seems to me] a way to keep the stone/knife angle consistent through the stroke.

I am hoping that Jon B is following this thread about tools and technique when given a choice or the means to create that work station.

Pics are still invited. If you look at the posts/responses they have elicited the most exchange of ideas. Even to the point of belt sander discussions. How COOL!

 

[spoiledbroth]

This is my set-up. 1/4 shallow hotel pan with Jon's stone bridge under a Suehiro deluxe stone holder holding a JKI stone holder. In this case its holding the JKI 6000 Diamond stone. Soaking is the Suehiro 5K and 1000 bester. I love this setup although I've since gone with only splash and go stones. Rock solid and can be packed up and put in my kit for storage when I'm finished sharpeing.


View attachment 28782

this is a bloody clever modification of jons setup... I like. Though I don't get the double stoneholder thing.

 

[JBroida]

the double stone holder allows for stones with less height to be used in the setup more easily, and allows you to use the stones to a thinner point before having to mount them on something

@goatgolfer did you have a specific question you wanted me to answer?

 

[daveb]

The top stone holder is for the diamond plates. It has very short walls so that you can access the relatively short stone. The Suehiro stone holder provides height to the stone set up and functions as a normal stone holder.

 

[brooksie967]

I don't really have a strong opinion about sitting or standing [not enough experience, that's why I started the thread] and Dave M. has commented about his ability to change the height of his work to accommodate sitting. But, it seems to me that sinks don't generally go up and down but cambros can if you just keep putting books under the table legs or cinder blocks under the stone.

So, no one has said WHY they prefer or must use sit/stand and if they had a choice. As a plant engineer doing process stuff (and kitchen work) making the work at bent elbow height was the least tiring but not necessarily the best leverage for long sessions. And, then you have the positive or negative angle of the stone. Is that a leverage issue or [it seems to me] a way to keep the stone/knife angle consistent through the stroke.

I am hoping that Jon B is following this thread about tools and technique when given a choice or the means to create that work station.

Pics are still invited. If you look at the posts/responses they have elicited the most exchange of ideas. Even to the point of belt sander discussions. How COOL!

I prefer standing for a few reasons but mainly my back. Sitting in an office chair/the most comfortable chair available still isn't as good for your back/body as standing. If I was sharpening knives 8 hours a day I'd probably want to sit but since it's for my own personal knives/straight razors only I find everything about the standing position to feel better.

 

[_PixelNinja]

I also prefer to stand because I have better posture in that position. I would tend to adopt a bad position when sitting.

 

[goatgolfer]

the double stone holder allows for stones with less height to be used in the setup more easily, and allows you to use the stones to a thinner point before having to mount them on something

@goatgolfer did you have a specific question you wanted me to answer?

Konichiwa @Jon-san: My questions are about two elements in the sharpening video near the start of this thread. Is the stone canted to the rear to achieve a certain knife/stone angle that the arm presents as it extends and, you are standing in the videos. Other than for photographic reasons, is it for some kind of leverage or similar to (1) to keep the arm+hand motion in some relative relation to the stone? Thanks.

 

[JBroida]

its actually pretty simple... its about 3 things (none of which are the specific angle it is held at, which is far less important):

1. Water control... when the stone is tilted, water doesnt pool up. So, in order to keep the stone wet, all i need to do is splash some water at the top (the taller side).

2. Ergonomics... it seems that when the stone is parallel to the work surface, peoples wrists have a tendency to tilt back towards them as they push away from themselves. The slight downward angle minimizes this and makes the motion a bit easier.

3. Its what my masters do... yeah... this one is simple. The guys i train under all sharpen this way, so until i'm as good as they are, i'm going to just do what they tell me

Really, if you want to sharpen with the stone flat on a surface, thats totally fine. Nothing wrong with that at all... and you will even see that kind of sharpening done by some craftsmen in certain parts of japan.

-Jon

 

[goatgolfer]

its actually pretty simple... its about 3 things (none of which are the specific angle it is held at, which is far less important):

1. Water control... when the stone is tilted, water doesnt pool up. So, in order to keep the stone wet, all i need to do is splash some water at the top (the taller side).

2. Ergonomics... it seems that when the stone is parallel to the work surface, peoples wrists have a tendency to tilt back towards them as they push away from themselves. The slight downward angle minimizes this and makes the motion a bit easier.

3. Its what my masters do... yeah... this one is simple. The guys i train under all sharpen this way, so until i'm as good as they are, i'm going to just do what they tell me

Really, if you want to sharpen with the stone flat on a surface, thats totally fine. Nothing wrong with that at all... and you will even see that kind of sharpening done by some craftsmen in certain parts of japan.

-Jon

Dr. Deming taught "Learn from the master not the student". One element you didn't touch on was standing v. sitting. Asians are seen sharpening seated on the floor (the Korin videos if none else) and there are daily personal situations where that is physically and culturally comfortable with the opposite for occidentals. Your videos show you standing. Convenience or technique? -Goat

 

[JBroida]

most guys in sakai kneel or sit while sharpening, while some of my teachers in other areas stand while sharpening. I've asked about this, and its about finding a comfortable height of the stones relative to one's body. My setup is designed to fit my size best. You will find what works for you best and use that. So, the main point is find the height that fits you best, instead of worrying about standing or sitting.

The kind of setup that my sakai sharpening masters use puts a lot of strain on my lower back, so i prefer to stand. I specifically asked them what they thought about this, and they totally thought it was pointless to worry about.

When we recently had a sakai based dento kougei-shi sharpener in the store doing a demo (he's a few inches shorter than me, and i'm not tall), we had to adjust my sharpening station to fit him. We removed the hotel pans and used our basic stone holder with base setup, which reduced the height of the stone by about 3-4 inches. That was enough.

 

[goatgolfer]

most guys in sakai kneel or sit while sharpening, while some of my teachers in other areas stand while sharpening. I've asked about this, and its about finding a comfortable height of the stones relative to one's body. My setup is designed to fit my size best. You will find what works for you best and use that. So, the main point is find the height that fits you best, instead of worrying about standing or sitting.

The kind of setup that my sakai sharpening masters use puts a lot of strain on my lower back, so i prefer to stand. I specifically asked them what they thought about this, and they totally thought it was pointless to worry about.

When we recently had a sakai based dento kougei-shi sharpener in the store doing a demo (he's a few inches shorter than me, and i'm not tall), we had to adjust my sharpening station to fit him. We removed the hotel pans and used our basic stone holder with base setup, which reduced the height of the stone by about 3-4 inches. That was enough.

Finally! Find the work position that is comfortable for what you're doing and how long you're going to do it. No magic. Pretty cool when it's boiled down. Thank you Jon.

 

[JBroida]

no prob... glad to be of service

 

[Chuckles]

My sharpening set up is a total mess right now but I was in the basement rooting around so here's a pic. I use an adjustable stool so I can sit or stand depending on the mood and what I am working on. I usually have a rubber-made tub for perma-soaking my synthetic stones but it is missing right now. Also I have found those pans that are kinda third pans that are just a bit shorter fit well in a fish box and I usually use that but it is missing right now too. Second pic is out in the garage.

 

[daveb]

Good thing the garage isn't missing:clown:

 

[Chuckles]

Found one. Thinge that store stones fit remote controls well too. :clown:

 

[goatgolfer]

Re: Chuckles sharpening setup (pic 1): Observations: a) full pitcher of dark liquid - contents unknown b) two bottles of micron stropping spray c) >10 stones but no water in sight c) TWO tape measures d) boning knife of unknown provenance e) substantial axe. Normally Chuckles posts well choreographed pictures of projects in action. Here we see the heart of the man. Thus, the signature finally comes into 3D and color.

Thanks for the pics. That's what I think most of the pics would look like if others had the fortitude to share the engine room.

 

[Chuckles]

A) Pitcher is diluted ferric chloride for etching.
B) Diamond spray from Dave. Unused.
C) Stones in the background are the soakers. Foreground are naturals, Diamond stones and plate, plus balsa strop.
C.1) two tape measures. I dunno, neither do millimeters.
D) Forschner 6" semi stiff
E) Wetterlings - I think it's the backcountry axe. In desperate need of love.

 

[mark76]

This is a great thread! I've started reading it just today because I was on holiday. My setup is also basically the same as Jon's (copy from the master...) and I stand.

However, because of back problems I've started to experiment with other positions, sitting. I haven't read at what height you guys do this, when sitting. This is rather tricky, I've found out. Anyone who can tell me what's the most comfortable sitting position/height for you? (And if Jon is reading this, what sitting position/height do the guys in Sakai use?)

Also, is there anyone who knows of YT videos of people sharpening while sitting?

 

[JBroida]

i cant say off the top of my head, but i'll try to take lots of pics when i'm there in october

 

[cave_dweller]

Also, is there anyone who knows of YT videos of people sharpening while sitting?

I've seen one of the Korin guys doing a YT sharpening tutorial while sitting. Here you go...

[video=youtube;JCYI7lk3eKY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCYI7lk3eKY[/video]

 

[Asteger]

However, because of back problems I've started to experiment with other positions, sitting. I haven't read at what height you guys do this, when sitting. This is rather tricky, I've found out. Anyone who can tell me what's the most comfortable sitting position/height for you? (And if Jon is reading this, what sitting position/height do the guys in Sakai use?)

I guess for me the stone would be a bit below chest height or even chest height, and my arms can move back and forth parallel to the table, so not at an downward angle.

About the earlier discussion on tilting stones, I think this is an issue (and works well) if you use synth stones and you don't want the water/slurry to pool up, as was said. However, this is often exactly what you want to do if using naturals, and so the tilting tip would generally be bad advice with naturals where it's all about working up, managing and maintaining the right consistency of slurry, although a very slight tilt maybe doesn't make much difference. Ergonomics-wise, I agree if you're sharpening with the stone well below your chest (say, if you're a stander) then tilting helps maintain a better back-forth motion and consistent angle. So two reasons I like the stone at a higher level, as at near chest-level my forearms aren't at that downward angle, and it is more probably more useful to a natural stone user who needs stones to be level so the slurry doesn't run off the stone, depending on the stone.

 

[JBroida]

I guess for me the stone would be a bit below chest height or even chest height, and my arms can move back and forth parallel to the table, so not at an downward angle.

About the earlier discussion on tilting stones, I think this is an issue (and works well) if you use synth stones and you don't want the water/slurry to pool up, as was said. However, this is often exactly what you want to do if using naturals, and so the tilting tip would generally be bad advice with naturals where it's all about working up, managing and maintaining the right consistency of slurry, although a very slight tilt maybe doesn't make much difference. Ergonomics-wise, I agree if you're sharpening with the stone well below your chest (say, if you're a stander) then tilting helps maintain a better back-forth motion and consistent angle. So two reasons I like the stone at a higher level, as at near chest-level my forearms aren't at that downward angle, and it is more probably more useful to a natural stone user who needs stones to be level so the slurry doesn't run off the stone, depending on the stone.

actually, most people in japan even use naturals at an angle... the mud is easy to develop that way too, and its much more about water control than the angle. If you dont add too much, it works great. Just FYI.

(i use naturals in my normal setup all of the time, as do many of the craftsmen i train under)

 

[Asteger]

Works fine with softer stones (Takeshima, most aoto, the JNS 'red/green aoto', etc) agreed, and can even be desireable with the mudfest ones (monzen, perhaps). It's true, most knife people prefer stones like this. However, for me it's more of an issue with the harder stones - not just finishers (I tend not to try hard fine finishers on a knife), but with stiffer medium/coarse naturals: Aizu, Numata, Iyo, kishu (Wakayama omura). Sometimes just a little water, then the slurry, and with some like this the wet-dry slurry balance is too delicate. Overall, though, with many naturals, you'll be pausing to add water more often than necessary if the stone's non-slightly tilted. (And not to forget many naturals are slightly tilted already, due to irregular cutting.)

 

[JBroida]

fair enough... totally get where you are coming from

 

[mark76]

Thanks, cave_dwellar! That is a very useful vid.

Thanks Jon as well, I'm really looking forward to your pics in october.

The vids I've seen until now were about ppl sitting in a tailors position (is this proper english?) If anyone could point me to images/vids/or any other info a sharpening position while sitting on a chair at a table, that'd be highly appreciated.

 

[jer]

[video=youtube;x9zX239JgKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9zX239JgKo[/video]

and here beginning around 6:40:

[video=youtube;zNPc6xBBiLk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNPc6xBBiLk[/video]