Revisions to the "What Knife Should You Buy" Questions

[El Pescador]

Some knives are shipped sharpened, others are not. A good question is "Do you have the ability to sharpen a new knife?"

 

[rdpx]

Please feel free to propose your own "guides" and put them up for comment and approval in a separate thread. Thank you.

Oh. I am very sorry, I was under the impression that this thread was to discuss revisions to the questionnaire and had not realised that you did not actually wish to discuss things.


In the spirit of carrying on regardless though, as Jaybett points out, the follow up questions are usually pretty much the same.A basic introduction (I don't know why you keep putting "guide" in quote marks) would be useful.

I know that you are very concerned about opinions - whose you value, and whose you do not value - and what you consider often poor quality of advice given on this site, and being concerned about that is important when devising advice. It is however not beyond the wit of man for us to distil these "opinions" into a basic and uncontroversial guide that would benefit those who know very little indeed.

You may say this has nothing to do with the questionnaire, but I disagree. I think that the questionnaire is the entry point for most people looking to jump into J-knives, and so the ideal place to instil a small bit of basic knowledge.

Robert

 

[mhlee]

Oh. I am very sorry, I was under the impression that this thread was to discuss revisions to the questionnaire and had not realised that you did not actually wish to discuss things.


In the spirit of carrying on regardless though, as Jaybett points out, the follow up questions are usually pretty much the same.A basic introduction (I don't know why you keep putting "guide" in quote marks) would be useful.

I know that you are very concerned about opinions - whose you value, and whose you do not value - and what you consider often poor quality of advice given on this site, and being concerned about that is important when devising advice. It is however not beyond the wit of man for us to distil these "opinions" into a basic and uncontroversial guide that would benefit those who know very little indeed.

You may say this has nothing to do with the questionnaire, but I disagree. I think that the questionnaire is the entry point for most people looking to jump into J-knives, and so the ideal place to instil a small bit of basic knowledge.

Robert

Since you've got such strong opinions about this, please feel free to do what you want with the questionnaire, what basic knowledge should be included and circulate it for comment.

Have at it.

 

[rdpx]

Since you've got such strong opinions about this, please feel free to do what you want with the questionnaire, what basic knowledge should be included and circulate it for comment.

Have at it.

I have already circulated my suggestions, but thanks for the offer, Mike.

 

[wenus2]

This sounds great Mike. It's long overdue and it sounds like you have it well in hand.
I agree the questionnaire should be about collecting info, not providing it. This also makes it more fluid as the opinions, tastes, and the industry itself are constantly evolving.

My biggest concern, outside of the always asked additional questions, would be phrasing the questions for new people to better answer them. A lot of the questions are answered inappropriately because people don't know what valid answers are, ie cutting motion.

 

[mhlee]

I have already circulated my suggestions, but thanks for the offer, Mike.

Put your suggestions into a formal proposed questionnaire since you don't agree with what I'm doing.

 

[mhlee]

This sounds great Mike. It's long overdue and it sounds like you have it well in hand.
I agree the questionnaire should be about collecting info, not providing it. This also makes it more fluid as the opinions, tastes, and the industry itself are constantly evolving.

My biggest concern, outside of the always asked additional questions, would be phrasing the questions for new people to better answer them. A lot of the questions are answered inappropriately because people don't know what valid answers are, ie cutting motion.

I think your "fluid" description is really appropriate.

I was thinking about how much more variety of knives we now have and how there are constantly new knives coming onto the market and what features they have when asked why we don't have something explaining what to expect of a knife at a certain price point. That alone makes it difficult to me to say what a knife should have at a certain price point. To use a car analogy, cars just a few years ago didn't have standard side curtain airbags. Now, nearly all do. Some features on knives weren't available at lower price points just a couple of years ago; now they are. This alone makes it very difficult to say that a knife in a certain price range should/or needs to have certain features. The standards are constantly changing.

And, I was giving serious thought to making the questions more user friendly and self-explanatory so we can get better answers. I completely agree with you.

 

[rdpx]

Put your suggestions into a formal proposed questionnaire since you don't agree with what I'm doing.

If you read back over what I have actually said, Michael, you should be able to see that at no point have I said that I disagree with what you are doing. I actually said that I did agree with it, and made a suggestion as to how the questions could be ordered that might make sense.
What you seem to have taken against is my suggestion that it might be an idea to have a link in the introduction to the questionnaire that would point novices to something they could read that would make the whole questionnaire process more fluid and helpful for both the person seeking advice, and those giving it.
You don't agree with me, and that is fine, but it doesn't alter the fact that, as someone who came here very recently as a total novice, I still believe it would be helpful.

Please don't impute that I am doing anything other than trying to give some input.

 

[mhlee]

You may say this has nothing to do with the questionnaire, but I disagree. I think that the questionnaire is the entry point for most people looking to jump into J-knives, and so the ideal place to instil a small bit of basic knowledge.

Robert

You don't disagree you say?

 

[mhlee]

What you seem to have taken against is my suggestion that it might be an idea to have a link in the introduction to the questionnaire that would point novices to something they could read that would make the whole questionnaire process more fluid and helpful for both the person seeking advice, and those giving it.

If you feel like this is important, then do it. Please create something that "novices . . . could read to make the whole questionnaire process more fluid" and submit it to the moderators for approval.

Thanks.

 

[rdpx]

You don't disagree you say?

For the love of God stop being so confrontational. I do not disagree with "what you are doing" but you were the one who is saying that what I suggested is wrong, and I do not agree .This is "not the same" as disagreeing with "what you are doing".

Is it really so wrong headed of me to suggest that it is possibly a good idea to have a short piece that will cover what 75% of the responses are going to be anyway?

Let's see what you come up with as an initial draft for the revised "questionnaire" and I will "comment" then. I am sure that everyone will "enjoy" that.

"Thanks"

Robert

 

[stevenStefano]

If you feel like this is important, then do it. Please create something that "novices . . . could read to make the whole questionnaire process more fluid" and submit it to the moderators for approval.

Thanks.

So you create a post asking for suggestions for questions to be added to the questionnaire, then when someone suggests some you tell them to make their own post and create their own questionnaire?

 

[mhlee]

So you create a post asking for suggestions for questions to be added to the questionnaire, then when someone suggests some you tell them to make their own post and create their own questionnaire?

Steven:

This is what Robert previously proposed.

"It might even be good to have a link that says "if you are a novice, then you should read this first" that links to a basic guide detailing costs and what you can get in each price band, differences in steels and maintenace, and the need for stones with suggestion of very basic entry set-ups etc."

Those are not questions. So, I invited Robert to make a thread that includes all of this.

What I've explained in my previous posts is that (1) this was not part of the original questionnaire, (2) by identifying "what you can get in each price band" necessarily includes/excludes certain knives, (3) there are no universal characteristics/differences in steel apart from chemical make up, among other things. I'm also not going to create anything that just proposes or recommends knives or other products. We have vendors here, and I'm extremely sensitive to the fact that by including a thread that essentially recommends certain products may upset any number of the vendors here. That's why I refuse to include it in the questionnaire and I've invited Robert to create this link or write up a number of times, which he, apparently, is unwilling to do.

Frankly, I've included a number of the proposed questions identified here, including some of Robert's comments, and reworded a number of the questions so that they're simpler (as Customfan noted) and less open to ridicule (as Kalaeb noted). I've even revised a number of questions so the answers are essentially in the questions and all the member needs to do is identify those answers in the question or answer "yes" or "no" or that they're somewhat leading so that if an answer is chosen, other members can direct that member to a more appropriate knife.

But, I'm not going to write this guide if it includes any type of recommendation whatsoever. That's why I'm leaving it up to him.

 

[mhlee]

For the love of God stop being so confrontational. I do not disagree with "what you are doing" but you were the one who is saying that what I suggested is wrong, and I do not agree .This is "not the same" as disagreeing with "what you are doing".

Is it really so wrong headed of me to suggest that it is possibly a good idea to have a short piece that will cover what 75% of the responses are going to be anyway?

Let's see what you come up with as an initial draft for the revised "questionnaire" and I will "comment" then. I am sure that everyone will "enjoy" that.

"Thanks"

Robert

Confrontational? I've explained repeatedly why I won't create this "short piece" and invited you to do it. But, you continue to disagree with my refusal to include it or do it. Get off your butt and make this "short piece".

And, why don't you just wait until I'm done and you can criticize me as much as you want, then? Okay?

 

[rdpx]

Why don't you just wait until I'm done and you can criticize me as much as you want, then? Okay?

Get off your butt and make this "short piece".

1. This is not about criticism, it is about a group effort to come up with a decent revised questionnaire. As Steven has pointed out, you started this thread asking for input. Don't throw your toys out of the pram just because I will not submit to your bullying dismissal of my input. From reading your reply to Steven it seems that you have also totally misinterpreted what I suggested. Also at no point have I said I am unwilling to do it, though you must be aware that I am probably not qualified to do it. Also your "invitations" to me have seemed patronising and sarcastic at best.

2. Do not tell me to "get off my butt". This is rude and offensive and you should not be talking to people like that, at your age.

 

[mhlee]

1. This is not about criticism, it is about a group effort to come up with a decent revised questionnaire. As Steven has pointed out, you started this thread asking for input. Don't throw your toys out of the pram just because I will not submit to your bullying dismissal of my input.

2. Do not tell me to "get off my butt". This is rude and offensive and you should not be talking to people like that, at your age.

The "short piece" is not a questionnaire. I'm sorry that you don't understand what a questionnaire is.

Rude and offensive? Hilarious. This is coming from someone who accused me of acting in a manner that suggests that I "have no interest in getting along with people."

 

[Benuser]

I wonder whether Michael's text was inspired by higher powers, as it seems to be unamendable.
Perhaps it's a better solution to take Eamon's original text as a point of departure. It might be useful to reread in the archive the discussions there were before it got its actual form. To give an example: the handle oiling question was meant, if I remember well and in my own words, to establish the degree of knife nutness.
I agree that the text can use some adjustments, and one, essential addition (are you left handed?).
I don't like a discussion where the search for a consensual, common text got lost.

 

[rdpx]

The "short piece" is not a questionnaire. I'm sorry that you don't understand what a questionnaire is.

Rude and offensive? Hilarious. This is coming from someone who accused me of acting in a manner that suggests that I "have no interest in getting along with people."

Read back over your responses. You did not ask me to write a short piece, you told me to write my own version of what I thought the questionnaire should be. Only in the last post or two have you moved your goalposts and said you want me to write a "short piece" that could be linked to - e.g:

Put your suggestions into a formal proposed questionnaire since you don't agree with what I'm doing.

And yes, I found that rude and offensive, and seeing as how it was addressed to me, it should concern you that this is how your words are interpreted if that is not how you wished to be read. Of course if you think it is hilarious, then that would again suggest to me that you have no interest in getting along with people. A simple apology might have been appropriate there, for example.

You are being obtuse.

Robert

 

[kalaeb]

I like you both, this is perhaps getting off topic, perhaps a continuation in PM?

 

[rdpx]

I don't like a discussion where the search for a consensual, common text got lost.

I like you both, this is perhaps getting off topic...

Amen.

 

[stevenStefano]

Perhaps it's a better solution to take Eamon's original text as a point of departure. It might be useful to reread in the archive the discussions there were before it got its actual form. To give an example: the handle oiling question was meant, if I remember well and in my own words, to establish the degree of knife nutness.

Yes I agree with this. What cutting motion do you use is another one. It isn't especially relevant, but it gives an idea if how knowledgeable the poster is. I think generally the original covers everything, there's a couple of questions I'd take out and add those suggested here, but I can't really think if anything that's missing, perhaps add a questions about if they had a choice, would they choose performance or looks? Quite a few new posters seem to have looks at the top of their priorities

 

[chinacats]

I think one that may be fairly important that I haven't seen discussed is location. It seems that some people benefit greatly from JCK due to shipping costs.

SS, very good point about the importance of aesthetics.

 

[mhlee]

Read back over your responses. You did not ask me to write a short piece, you told me to write my own version of what I thought the questionnaire should be. Only in the last post or two have you moved your goalposts and said you want me to write a "short piece" that could be linked to - e.g:




And yes, I found that rude and offensive, and seeing as how it was addressed to me, it should concern you that this is how your words are interpreted if that is not how you wished to be read. Of course if you think it is hilarious, then that would again suggest to me that you have no interest in getting along with people. A simple apology might have been appropriate there, for example.

You are being obtuse.

Robert

Robert:

I've looked back at these posts hundreds of times now to incorporate what everyone has posted. Yes, I asked you to prepare a questionnaire because you believed it should be in a different format, include recommendations, etc. That's why I invited you to revise the questionnaire. Yet, still, you have not agreed to do anything apart from criticize what I'm doing. And that's fine. You're entitled to do so.

But, if you're going to propose something that I've refused to do, because of my numerous reasons, then why don't you do it? That's why I repeatedly invited you do contribute a revised questionnaire, "short piece," or whatever you want.

In fact, I would have gladly turned this project over to you to finish, but, you refused. And, despite proposing this "short piece," you again conveniently avoid any commitment to preparing such a thing.

Please prepare whatever you want included with the questionnaire and post it here. Let the members decide if it's worthwhile.

 

[mhlee]

I wonder whether Michael's text was inspired by higher powers, as it seems to be unamendable.
Perhaps it's a better solution to take Eamon's original text as a point of departure. It might be useful to reread in the archive the discussions there were before it got its actual form. To give an example: the handle oiling question was meant, if I remember well and in my own words, to establish the degree of knife nutness.
I agree that the text can use some adjustments, and one, essential addition (are you left handed?).
I don't like a discussion where the search for a consensual, common text got lost.

I'm using Eamon's original text as a start. I'm not trying to recreate the wheel.

And, I'm putting up the questionnaire up for public review. I never intended for this to be something that wasn't ultimately approved by enough members.

Frankly, if everyone hates it, I'm ok.

 

[mhlee]

I think one that may be fairly important that I haven't seen discussed is location. It seems that some people benefit greatly from JCK due to shipping costs.

SS, very good point about the importance of aesthetics.

Good question. I completely forgot about this.

 

[mhlee]

I think one that may be fairly important that I haven't seen discussed is location. It seems that some people benefit greatly from JCK due to shipping costs.

SS, very good point about the importance of aesthetics.

I agree that the aesthetic question is important. It's still in the questionnaire.

But, like Kalaeb pointed out previously, some questions can lead to ridicule. I'm trying to rework the questions so that the answers provided don't lead to something like that. The performance vs. looks is one of those questions. If someone says "looks", it'll likely not result in positive responses.

Can anyone think of how to rework the performance vs. looks into a non-offensive question?

 

[chinacats]

I agree that the aesthetic question is important. It's still in the questionnaire.

But, like Kalaeb pointed out previously, some questions can lead to ridicule. I'm trying to rework the questions so that the answers provided don't lead to something like that. The performance vs. looks is one of those questions. If someone says "looks", it'll likely not result in positive responses.

Can anyone think of how to rework the performance vs. looks into a non-offensive question?

.
I think your thoughts about leading people in the right direction would apply here as well. 'How important is looks in your decision' or 'some knives value is related to aesthetics, is this something important to you'. It may help to narrow the choices offered if it comes across the right way.

 

[rdpx]

Robert:

I've looked back at these posts hundreds of times now to incorporate what everyone has posted. Yes, I asked you to prepare a questionnaire because you believed it should be in a different format, include recommendations, etc. That's why I invited you to revise the questionnaire. Yet, still, you have not agreed to do anything apart from criticize what I'm doing. And that's fine. You're entitled to do so.

But, if you're going to propose something that I've refused to do, because of my numerous reasons, then why don't you do it? That's why I repeatedly invited you do contribute a revised questionnaire, "short piece," or whatever you want.

In fact, I would have gladly turned this project over to you to finish, but, you refused. And, despite proposing this "short piece," you again conveniently avoid any commitment to preparing such a thing.

Please prepare whatever you want included with the questionnaire and post it here. Let the members decide if it's worthwhile.

For the I do not know how manyth time, but lets be clear:


1. I was NOT proposing that the questionnaire be in a different format.

2. I was proposing that it might be an idea to have a LINK at the very top of the page, along the lines of "READ THIS FIRST IF YOU ARE A COMPLETE NOVICE IT MAY SAVE US ALL SOME TIME".

3. At no stage did I suggest that you write the linked piece.

4. At no stage did I suggest that specific knives should be recommended in this linked piece.

5. At no stage did I suggest that someone who was a complete novice such as myself should write this linked piece.

6. Eight other posters also suggested or expressed interest in such an article or articles before I mentioned it. This is approaching 50% of the members who have contributed to this thread.

7. I have NOT ONCE criticised what you are doing with the questionnaire.

8. You at no point offered to turn the project over to me to finish, so I could not have refused such an offer.

9. You continue to make sly digs at me - to whit "you have not agreed to do anything apart from criticize" & "you again convenietly avoid any commitment to preparing (sic) such a thing". I would be grateful if you would stop doing that, it is unbecoming.

 

[mhlee]

What do people think about removing the "grip" question?

I ask this because most people use multiple grips and, in my experience and reading through numerous posts and threads, most people don't necessarily favor either a western or wa handle when it comes to using a pinch grip.

 

[Benuser]

IFrankly, if everyone hates it, I'm ok.

iI would like to see a text discussion without such, frankly displaced terms as hate.