Revisions to the "What Knife Should You Buy" Questions

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Shop Knives and stones on ebay
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
mhlee said:
Can anyone think of how to rework the performance vs. looks into a non-offensive question?
Click to expand...

I think phrasing it as "performance VS looks" is going to create issues. Why not just drop the performance bit from that. This aesthetics question can probably be dropped altogether as other questions could lead to answer that they want damascus, or a bling handle.

If someone wants a shiny damascus knife with a purple handle with castles in it then that's fine surely and the members will be able to help them find a good one. Is not spending $300 on a custom rehandle effectively all about looks?

Another issue with saying "yes aesthetics is important to me" is that they may MEAN that they want an orange handled knife that looks like an ice-skate, or they may want a damascus, or they may be envisaging a plain blade with black yo handle.

A question that could get there might be "Have you seen any knives [and what were they] that you really like the look of, or is this not an issue?". That way if they say "yes the guy fieri knuckle smasher" or "yes the shiny one with castles on" or "these brown handled damascus ones" we know where they are coming from and where they want to end up.
 
As a newb, my answer to the performance vs looks question would be "why can't I have both?" The idea being, that since I don't know what I want or what I'm doing, and I am trying to gain insight into this magical world of j-knives that i've just discovered (sorry this didn't happen so long ago for me, I'm still a little starry-eyed haha), that I really can't answer this question. I guess it would still give you all insight into how much knowledge the poster has- or doesnt. My guess is most people without the knowledge many of you have would answer the same as I when posed this question. I don't think the question is offensive, just that it may not actually give much pertinent additional info. One thing to also take into account is the fact that many newbs THINK they have a pretty good idea of cutlery and care (case in point, one Drumjockey) when they join and fill out the questionnaire but actually discover they know next to nothing after a few weeks reading posts
 
How about specifically asking if the individual wants damascus cladding or if they want a patterned handle? Then they can respond either with a yes they want it, no they don't, or they don't care either way.
 
FWIW, I've spent some time thinking about how to rephrase the question. I couldn't come up with a good question.

If you ask, "Do you care about how a knife looks?", the answer will be, "Of course." Who wants what they perceive to be an ugly knife?

Here's how I've currently addressed this:

What improvements do you want from your current knife? Please identify all improvements that you would like this knife to have. (If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a rustic knife – e.g., hammered finish, or darkened (kurouchi) blade; satin finish; mirror finish; nicer steel pattern (e.g., layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel); different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance) –

The answers are there in the question, which is something I've done for many of the questions.
 
mhlee said:
What do people think about removing the "grip" question?

I ask this because most people use multiple grips and, in my experience and reading through numerous posts and threads, most people don't necessarily favor either a western or wa handle when it comes to using a pinch grip.
Click to expand...
I do find it an essential question. Some novice users won't be aware of the grip they use. To pinch grippers, the balance point is important - or they will adjust. Hammer grippers will think it's about weight and not about balance.
 
mhlee said:
FWIW, I've spent some time thinking about how to rephrase the question. I didn't come up with a good question.
Click to expand...

You could just put this picture in and ask "what do you think of this one?":

Gyuto180mm.jpg
 
Would a question like:

Rank the following in terms of importance to knife selection:
A: Ease of Cutting
B: Ease of Sharpening
C: Edge Retention
D: Aesthetics

Expanded Comments? ___

capture the performance/aesthetics answer?
 
Why not just drop the aesthetics wording and cut it down to a simple question. Like "What kind of blade finish do you prefer? Kurouchi/Damascus/hammared/mirror/satin, etc".

Also, we should ask the folks at Korin and JKI what general questions they ask customers when they first come into their shops since they operate out of physical store fronts. I'm sure there will be some overlap and maybe even some missed questions. Even though this isn't a questionnaire directed towards sales, the end result is the same. Everyone is looking for that best friend in the kitchen.

And I hate to disagree with you Mr. Lee, but there are some things you can discern based on price points. Don't expect to find a Mizu-Honyaki for $200 for example. A $100 dollar knife probably won't have an engraved kanji. A $500 dollar knife will bring a lot of disappointment because it doesn't come with a pack of beer and a massage. Although I think they should, but they don't.
 
Also, I've never seen a suggestion or purchasing decision based on the type of grip.

Also, this is an age of waste and disposable goods. When we have re-handling and stabilized wood options, what the heck does oiling your handle have to do with anything?
 
wenus2 said:
This sounds great Mike. It's long overdue and it sounds like you have it well in hand.
I agree the questionnaire should be about collecting info, not providing it. This also makes it more fluid as the opinions, tastes, and the industry itself are constantly evolving.
Click to expand...


I agree here.
 
I've just read through this post and I'm not liking what I'm seeing and I see no reason why this thread has to go the way it has.

When Eamon undertook this venture originally I'm sure that he realized that eventually it would need modifying and the time has come. I feel that we can get this done without the conversation turning personal.

I'm not taking sides here but I will say that if I had to pick someone to write a questionnaire I'd probably look to Michael for input which means that I believe in his ability to come up with a final product that we can use as a revision to kick off a new questionnaire. Let's give him some support here and I'm sure we'll be better for it.

After all, what becomes the final questionnaire doesn't have to remain final either....it will always be evolving just as Eamon's original is now being upgraded.
 
Thanks Dave, I was getting a bit bothered by the tone of this convo.
 
There was a call for opinions on how to improve the "What knife to buy questionnaire ?" When opinions were offered, they were criticized. The thread was primed to go south.

If anything can be gained from this thread, it was the example shown by Rdpx, on how to express an opinion without being negative.

Jay
 
jaybett said:
There was a call for opinions on how to improve the "What knife to buy questionnaire ?" When opinions were offered, they were criticized. The thread was primed to go south.

If anything can be gained from this thread, it was the example shown by Rdpx, on how to express an opinion without being negative.

Jay
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
jaybett said:
There was a call for opinions on how to improve the "What knife to buy questionnaire ?" When opinions were offered, they were criticized. The thread was primed to go south.

If anything can be gained from this thread, it was the example shown by Rdpx, on how to express an opinion without being negative.

Jay
Click to expand...

Jay:

If you look back at what Robert (rdpx) proposed, that you agreed with, was essentially a primer or teaching guide. They were not just opinions on how to improve the questionnaire, they would fundamentally change what the structure of the Questionnaire would be, as well as require additional threads, documents or links to be produced and created.

Frankly, they weren't criticized at first; I simply did not accept them and refused to include them in the Questionnaire, which I explained in detail; I refused to do them for the numerous reasons stated in the thread. But, apparently, my refusal to do what was asked, which, again, would fundamentally change what the Questionnaire would be, was "criticizing" the opinions.

Frankly, if you look back at rdpx's response, his response was sarcastic and critical of my responses. Prior to his, "Oh. I am very sorry, I was under the impression that this thread was to discuss revisions to the questionnaire and had not realised that you did not actually wish to discuss things", I was not rude to him in any way or manner. I simply did not agree with what he proposed. And I stand by my position.

And, the primer/teaching guide, whatever you want to call it, would have to be created by someone. Based on your and Robert's tone, it's pretty clear you wanted me to do it and include it in the Questionnaire. FWIW, I spent the better part of a day revising and revising the Questionnaire. And, of course, I did not get any kind of compensatory benefit from doing it; I still pay my membership just like other paid members.

Just because I took this project on doesn't mean I have to do exactly what is asked of me by other members. Of course, neither you nor Robert ever offered to actually create the primer or guide.

And, considering that other people have not universally supported your position, I don't think it's fair to say that what he and you propose is something that's universally wanted in the Questionnaire. Your opinions do not matter any more than the opinions of others.

And that's why I repeatedly invited him to do what he proposed. And, I'm inviting you to do the same. If you want to do what you propose, please feel free to do it on your own and propose it to the forum for review by the members and let others, including me, review your proposals and offer their (and my) opinions about your proposal.

I look forward to what you come up with.
 
Benuser said:
Exactly.
Click to expand...

I invite you to do the same. Please feel free to create something that you would like included in the Questionnaire, whether it's a separate link, page, explanation, etc. and post it for review and approval by the members.

I look forward to what you come up with.
 
I think I was the last guy to use the old questionnaire and therefore the one who started all of this. IMO, if you are looking to help people who are just getting interested in knives, whether they are experienced cooks or not, you have to ask general questions and not start in with what a knowledgeable person would know. Half of the questions on the basic questionnaire are head scratchers for me. You need to be interested in knives before you can answer detailed questions, but you will never interest people without talking them into that stage. Again, my thoughts.
 
mzer said:
I think I was the last guy to use the old questionnaire and therefore the one who started all of this. IMO, if you are looking to help people who are just getting interested in knives, whether they are experienced cooks or not, you have to ask general questions and not start in with what a knowledgeable person would know. Half of the questions on the basic questionnaire are head scratchers for me. You need to be interested in knives before you can answer detailed questions, but you will never interest people without talking them into that stage. Again, my thoughts.
Click to expand...

Just curious about the newer users perspective and it may be helpful here; which questions were the most confusing?

Also I think it is important to realize that by the time people are here asking for opinions that they have some level of interest already; whether or not they can answer the questions (as well as the answers they give) can also be helpful to determine which knives they should choose.

Cheers
 
chinacats said:
Just curious about the newer users perspective and it may be helpful here; which questions were the most confusing?

Also I think it is important to realize that by the time people are here asking for opinions that they have some level of interest already; whether or not they can answer the questions (as well as the answers they give) can also be helpful to determine which knives they should choose.

Cheers
Click to expand...

What type of knife(s) do you think you want? This makes perfect sense.

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing? Good.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics-
Edge Quality/Retention-
Ease of Use-
Comfort-

Taken as a group, these questions are good, but they are better the more knives you have used and the more you have played around.

What grip do you use? This is probably an important question, but it also requires the correct lingo to answer.

What kind of cutting motion do you use? I don't even really know what this means. I mean, I do now that I have looked around the site for a week or two, but it isn't particularly clear, and it seems like the fruits of an internecine conflict over the right way to do things. Not sure it is a useful question for a new user.

Where do you store them? This is important. It probably is the best guide to how serious somebody is.

Have you ever oiled a handle? This is silly.

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use? Similar to storage question, but doesn't say what knife somebody should use, rather which knives you should not suggest to the questioner out of fear of killing something great.

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Too technical. Ask now somebody keeps their knife sharp.

Have they ever been sharpened? Good question. Self explanatory.

What is your budget? Good question but hard to conjure out of thin air. Maybe give common price ranges and what the jumps tend to mean.

What do you cook and how often? Not sure this is important other than to get an idea of the person.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)? No idea what this means.

Hope that helps!
 
Nice, I think at least one of these (cutting motion) will be linked to something helpful--maybe something as simple as a video? I think Micheal's new form also offers multiple choices on a few of the ?'s which should also be helpful. Maybe take a stab at the new form and see if you think it is more helpful/useful? I do think that an important aspect of this is that it is useful for those with some/a lot of experience as well as those with very little.

Cheers
 
mhlee said:
Jay:

If you look back at what Robert (rdpx) proposed, that you agreed with, was essentially a primer or teaching guide. They were not just opinions on how to improve the questionnaire, they would fundamentally change what the structure of the Questionnaire would be, as well as require additional threads, documents or links to be produced and created.

Frankly, they weren't criticized at first; I simply did not accept them and refused to include them in the Questionnaire, which I explained in detail; I refused to do them for the numerous reasons stated in the thread. But, apparently, my refusal to do what was asked, which, again, would fundamentally change what the Questionnaire would be, was "criticizing" the opinions.

Frankly, if you look back at rdpx's response, his response was sarcastic and critical of my responses. Prior to his, "Oh. I am very sorry, I was under the impression that this thread was to discuss revisions to the questionnaire and had not realised that you did not actually wish to discuss things", I was not rude to him in any way or manner. I simply did not agree with what he proposed. And I stand by my position.

And, the primer/teaching guide, whatever you want to call it, would have to be created by someone. Based on your and Robert's tone, it's pretty clear you wanted me to do it and include it in the Questionnaire. FWIW, I spent the better part of a day revising and revising the Questionnaire. And, of course, I did not get any kind of compensatory benefit from doing it; I still pay my membership just like other paid members.

Just because I took this project on doesn't mean I have to do exactly what is asked of me by other members. Of course, neither you nor Robert ever offered to actually create the primer or guide.

And, considering that other people have not universally supported your position, I don't think it's fair to say that what he and you propose is something that's universally wanted in the Questionnaire. Your opinions do not matter any more than the opinions of others.

And that's why I repeatedly invited him to do what he proposed. And, I'm inviting you to do the same. If you want to do what you propose, please feel free to do it on your own and propose it to the forum for review by the members and let others, including me, review your proposals and offer their (and my) opinions about your proposal.

I look forward to what you come up with.
Click to expand...

Michael,

I thought the questionnaire was long over due for a revision. I like the work you have done on the revision.

There seems to a disconnect, when suggestions were offered you've had a strong reaction to them. Unless
Posts were deleted or you got a pm, your reactions have been unusual. This is probably a situation
where a face to face would clear up any misunderstandings.

I've reread the posts two or three times, in case I was missing something. And I still might be, but I
didn't see anything out of line with Robert's posts. I admired the way he was able to stay on point
without getting negative.

Jay
 
mhlee said:
Prior to his, "Oh. I am very sorry, I was under the impression that this thread was to discuss revisions to the questionnaire and had not realised that you did not actually wish to discuss things", I was not rude to him in any way or manner...
Click to expand...

What we should take from this is the implicit admission that Michael was rude to me after this point in the thread, which is reassuring, as I had wondered whether I was being too sensitive.

Your reply above continues to be full of misrepresentations of what I have said in this thread, and also more wildly inaccurate and offensive imputations of my thought processes. You also seem to confuse the order in which things happened. I really wish that you would desist as it is becoming quite disturbing to me to read what you say about me. I had backed away from this and had even tried to change the subject with the furi knife and thought that you had done the same.

Please stop this Michael, I can't really put it any more simply than that. I don't care enough about it to endure reading your awful accusations about what I am supposed to have thought or said or how petty I am supposed to be.
 
rdpx said:
What we should take from this..
Click to expand...

I am too late to edit it myself, but can we agree to disregard my above reply?

I like this forum - it has been surprisingly fun, and is a great place to whitter on about knives and for me to do some imaginary shopping. I have no reason to have anything against anyone who posts here, the thread got out of hand. As suggested above, in a face to face situation it probably would not have happened like this.

Michael, please accept my apologies for anything I have said that might have upset you, it was not intentional and I was only interested in helping to make something that was going to be useful to members new and old. I am sorry if my intentions were not clear.

Apologies also to all who had to read this. In future I shall try to remain aloof.

rdp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top