salting your food before you taste it?

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boomchakabowwow said:
i think there is some irony in here somewhere.^^

it was just a silly question..just a regular silly question. really about flavor logistics. if a dish comes out too salty and you just start salting without tasting, arent you going in the wrong direction? that's all...i dont care about a chef's grand scheme, or a chinese mom's idea about balancing soy with ginger..just a regular question.

i'm not gassed about how anyone does things..especially not on the internet. and salt shakers at the restuarants isnt even a blip on my radar.

i was just wondering about the strategy of putting salt on food prior to tasting.
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I think it also depends on the dish.... soups, stews, pasta sauces etc. Always taste first because there are so many ingredients that affect salt content... if it is things like a steak you are potentially safer that there is "less" salt involved.

But ultimately salting without tasting is a habitual thing. There isn't a logic to it.
 
Matus said:
No, I do not. But I see a lot of that behaviour at our work canteen where many do put salt and pepper-mixture (in a grinder) on their food/salad before even tasting it. The truth is - it does not save the crappy food quality/taste ...

I do not think it is an old time practice, just a lack of dining culture practice (I hope I do not offend anyone around here) and/or access to decent quality food/restaurants

I actually do have an exception - the french fries at work are without any salt, so I do not need to taste them to know there is no salt on them :)
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Matus.. you are in Germany! be glad they dondt use Maggi or other "taste enhancers" before trying.

seeya daniel
 
DaveInMesa said:
No. You've given me food that suits your tastes, not mine. And if you've taken the salt shaker off the table, NOW you've failed, because that's bad hospitality. There is no "correct level of saltiness" in food. People's perceptions and preferences vary, not only from person to person, but also over time.
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I don't even own a salt shaker, so no chance of me pulling it off the table.

There may be no "correct level" of saltiness, but there certainly is an optimal level-- and that absolutely varies from person to person. I know when I cook for my parents to use less salt. I knew when cooking for my late grandmother to use salt even more sparingly. If I invited you, Dave in Mesa, over to my house for dinner I'm cooking for YOU. So if you're an old fart, then I won't add so much salt to the food. If you're not an aged man, then I'll salt my food according to my normal standards.

If you still want salt, then please get the **** out of my apartment. I'm kidding of course, but I really do feel like I've failed you as a diner if my food is too salty or needs more salt. I may disagree with you, but I'll still feel a little bad-- because after all-- if you don't share the same tastes as me, you must be some sort of uneducated rube ;)
 
If it is a home cooking situation, why don't invite all guests to the kitchen to have a final seasoning party?
 
DaveInMesa said:
No. You've given me food that suits your tastes, not mine. And if you've taken the salt shaker off the table, NOW you've failed, because that's bad hospitality. There is no "correct level of saltiness" in food. People's perceptions and preferences vary, not only from person to person, but also over time.
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I think there is a perfect amount of salt in a dish. And most important a perfect balance with salt, aromatics, spice, sourness and sugar.
Not enough of this and it tastes uninteressant, too much of that and it tastes complicated.

Anyway the differences old-young, German-Japanese are minimal. You can't adjust this with a salt shaker...or it will be too much salt on it!
A dish "corrected" with a salt shaker is a dish a dish that has been..hmm.. not very properly cooked.
 
nutmeg said:
I think there is a perfect amount of salt in a dish. And most important a perfect balance with salt, aromatics, spice, sourness and sugar.
Not enough of this and it tastes uninteressant, too much of that and it tastes complicated.

Anyway the differences old-young, German-Japanese are minimal. You can't adjust this with a salt shaker...or it will be too much salt on it!
A dish "corrected" with a salt shaker is a dish a dish that has been..hmm.. not very properly cooked.
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So you are saying there is no such thing as personal preference in taste?
 
No. There is one perfect amount but it's very difficult and fine to obtain.
Differences for people with 10-60 years old are minimal. I wouldn't cook differently.
Just ask someone who often eat in 2-3 Michelin stars restaurants.
Or remember the finest dich you've ever eaten... I bet all the table found it perfect. This was the perfect seasoning.
Anyway in the everyday cooking like this is difficult ok. But I still believe a salt shaker corrects in a positive way.. only poor dishes.
 
Some folks will salt anything, no matter how salty it is. It's almost like a ritual.
 
@nutmeg so your theory/postulate is that it is better to balance the salt perfectly to the other six-taste aspects of the dish than to the eater?
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
@nutmeg so your theory/postulate is that it is better to balance the salt perfectly to the other six-taste aspects of the dish than to the eater?
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Yes. This is cooking.
Mastering salt is the base of cooking. A dish is well balanced or not.
A good cook has to cook until his dish tastes. What are they doing in 2-3 Michelins stars restaurants, the 50 best restaurants of your country?
Do they cook thinking the customer could add salt by himself?

The good amount of salt is not between too little salt - too much salt
it is between enough salt to taste the ingredient - and enough salt to give him character

This margin is minimal and everything within this margin tastes good to me, to my cousin, his wife, his best friend, his best friend's grandma etc..
 
@nutmeg why do I always have to think of the Thai condiment system in this discussion - that kind of works on the premise of "if the eater messes with it he'll need a six... make that seven :)* dimension kit to rebalance it and not just a salt cellar..."

But I have to admit I always wondered about the "kosher salt" cult ... my salt tends to be all dissolved in the sauce since i'll *need* it earlier anyway (for drawing juices out of something, or to help with getting things busted in a mortar, or....)

*believer in the fat receptor, the idea that bitter isn't one dimensional, and MAYBE in kokumi too :)
 
I should cook and taste as I feel at the moment, trying to make it right, salting as much as I can until I reach the correct taste.
After a bit of training, when I know it's perfectly right I will say: sorry my friend, you don't need any salt shaker for this dish.
My opinion but I believe that thinking to a salt shaker on the table leads to lazy seasonings.
 
LOL... as a single home cook it's often lazyness that makes me try to season everything right in the pan... so I can leave the kitchen with a plate and fork/chopsticks and eat without further ado :)

And I find undissolved salt annoying, except on fries (where I prefer the ultimate salt kick: very finely ground, not too much :) ).
 
nutmeg said:
I should cook and taste as I feel at the moment, trying to make it right, salting as much as I can until I reach the correct taste.
After a bit of training, when I know it's perfectly right I will say: sorry my friend, you don't need any salt shaker for this dish.
My opinion but I believe that thinking to a salt shaker on the table leads to lazy seasonings.
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I think this is an exceptionally arrogant opinion. And ignores the multitude of evidence (including scientific) that people's taste buds are not uniform and even in fact change throughout life.

Afterall. Tell me what balanced is?

Lets look at a simplistic example, take thai good and the addition of chilli, you are likely to get two very different answers to where the balance with chilli is between a thai person and a person from US or Australian (or wherever else). Who is right?
 
I realized today that when I sit to eat curry chicken roti i automatically pour on the scotch bonnet hot sauce. In actuality i get a little roti with my hot sauce. Maybe it's the same for salters. They really like salt and to them "too salty" is a long way away in the same way "too hot" isn't in my vocabulary.
 
If it's curry & roti that you made, garnishing it with hot sauce is part of your recipe :)

@malexthekid isn't adding massive amounts of dried chili for the machismo, post-paste, more a westernized thai food thing? And heat is more of a texture than a taste, and also capsaicin tolerance is far more variable in people than salt tolerance (probably on a 1:1000 or something scale... one could never raise a 1000x their salt or acid tolerance since a 1000x normal dose of salt or acidity would be poisonous/corrosive. For everyone everywhere. ;) )

The food for thought I tried to serve was that salt, unless added at the table, has other functions in cooking than just seasoning. Dry roasting something and pouring hot water on top afterwards ain't gonna give you boiled something :)

Confusingly on no one's side again :)
 
Not in my experience. Actually thai food is very hot, they are jist used to that taste. Chilli actually has a taste that balances, not the hotness.

Also in Thailand having dried, fresh amd chilli paste at the table is very common. Acknowleding that people have a difference of opinion on how much. So the recipe uses a base amount (usually a lot more than the standard westerners like) and then you add more to taste.
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
If it's curry & roti that you made, garnishing it with hot sauce is part of your recipe :)

@malexthekid isn't adding massive amounts of dried chili for the machismo, post-paste, more a westernized thai food thing? And heat is more of a texture than a taste, and also capsaicin tolerance is far more variable in people than salt tolerance (probably on a 1:1000 or something scale... one could never raise a 1000x their salt or acid tolerance since a 1000x normal dose of salt or acidity would be poisonous/corrosive. For everyone everywhere. ;) )

The food for thought I tried to serve was that salt, unless added at the table, has other functions in cooking than just seasoning. Dry roasting something and pouring hot water on top afterwards ain't gonna give you boiled something :)

Confusingly on no one's side again :)
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Also to your last comment, that is correct i think it has a few different uses in food. One is as a flavour enhancer (I have heard arguments that if you can taste the salt you added too much) but also as seasoning, which is a personal thing.
 
mise_en_place said:
I don't even own a salt shaker, so no chance of me pulling it off the table.
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Luckily, there's little chance of you inviting me over for dinner and even less chance of me accepting. But, you should (get and) leave a salt shaker on the table, curb the control freak tendencies, and take the massive ego off it, instead. :biggrin: Whatever you may think of the health risks, you're not my physician, and a good host wants his/her guest to enjoy the meal, not just suffer through it because it's "optimal". What you consider optimal is almost certainly not what I consider optimal, so why would you try to force your preference upon me?
 
I was more about ... how you can use your salt "budget" usefully... osmotic or abrasive uses as I mentioned... or being able to add more tasty salt-preserved things...

And I found just going with thai recipes gives you great balance (but then I can take decent heat if it isn't harsh, unemulsified heat which I just find unpleasant usually).
 
nutmeg said:
I think there is a perfect amount of salt in a dish. And most important a perfect balance with salt, aromatics, spice, sourness and sugar.
Not enough of this and it tastes uninteressant, too much of that and it tastes complicated.
Click to expand...

Agreed. So, you'd have no objection to me adding salt to achieve the perfect amount for me, right? :biggrin:

nutmeg said:
Anyway the differences old-young, German-Japanese are minimal.
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No, sorry, but you could not be more wrong about that if you tried, especially since you mentioned Japanese. There's an entire island in Japan where the population has, over time, acquired a tolerance for, and a preference for, salt levels that American physicians would consider borderline suicidal. But these people have no problems with hypertension, high blood pressure, or any of the other supposed ill-effects of too much salt consumption. If you were to cook for these people you would absolutely, without question, give them a dish they would consider horribly under-seasoned. If they gave you a meal seasoned the way they like it, you probably wouldn't be able to eat it because of the high salt level, and you certainly wouldn't like it.

In restaurants, we generally season to please an average-to-educated palate, and still put salt and pepper on the tables. We don't assume we know what the customer is going to want. Why do home cooks think they're so much smarter?
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
I was more about ... how you can use your salt "budget" usefully... osmotic or abrasive uses as I mentioned... or being able to add more tasty salt-preserved things...

And I found just going with thai recipes gives you great balance (but then I can take decent heat if it isn't harsh, unemulsified heat which I just find unpleasant usually).
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But that is the key... what you think is harsh isn't what i think is harsh. Everyone's taste buds are different. That is a fact.

And usung salty things as opposed to salt is no different. It is still using salt in the food. Much like if I am making chicken stock... if I am using fresh chicken carcass I will add salt, if I am using roast chicken carcass i won't add much or even non at all if I was heavy with with salt during roasting. Salt content is the same.
 
Elfen23 said:
Growing up, salt was always on the table, and generally needed. I got into the really bad habit of salting before tasting...

Then I grew up, was able to explore the adventurous side of my tastes and realized, for us, the salt was a direct result of not knowing how to use other seasonings. If it wasn't salt, pepper, or garlic it didn't happen in my house. More salt was the answer.

Bonus note: salting before tasting was one of Danny's biggest pet peeves!! Luckily, I'd grown out of it before we met, but I wish I could read his personal tirade on this thread. Guaranteed to make us laugh, which I desperately miss :)
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I would love to hear his tirade. Is there at thread here at kkf?

BTW- Elfen23, I am really enjoying hearing from you. I hope you continue to chime in. Reading old posts from Danny always hits me with a bitter sweetness... a smile and a tear.
 
malexthekid said:
I think this is an exceptionally arrogant opinion. And ignores the multitude of evidence (including scientific) that people's taste buds are not uniform and even in fact change throughout life.

Afterall. Tell me what balanced is?

Lets look at a simplistic example, take thai good and the addition of chilli, you are likely to get two very different answers to where the balance with chilli is between a thai person and a person from US or Australian (or wherever else). Who is right?
Click to expand...

Ok +1 for the Thai argument..
In France and Germany, both countries where I used to live a long time I could bet that 99% of the 10-60 years old persons say to a brillant seasoned dish "it's perfect".
 
I think that the right amount of salt is a bit of a grey scale that is fairly narrow. I believe that most people around the world prefer roughly the same amount of salt independent of age. Percentage wise it would be a fairly tight range. As a chef for elderly people I aim at the lower side of salt content where most would not choose to add to it but a few might add a touch.
 
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