Sigh, that’s the sort of thing that gives ADHD a bad name…
Sharpening **** stainless
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Vaughan
Konosuke taste, Tojiro budget
Definitely felt that I’d be seen as the mad one had I interjected. Just had to tell myself it was a gift of more sharpening experience.
Vaughan
Konosuke taste, Tojiro budget
There was a recurrent video advertisement on this site (which I haven’t seen for some time) featuring someone cutting through dough with a chef’s knife on a bare stone/granite bench-top. With the regular comments from members here regarding knife mistreatment I found it rather amusing.
The best decoy knife is a board scraper in plain view, but for those who believe that a truly good knife should handle any abuse, well, that’s the perfect excuse to go buy a bunch of MagnaCut! “Challenge accepted.”
And then the MagnaCut knives become the perfect excuse to buy diamond stones… because, hey, they work great on cheap stainless too, so it’s really two birds with one
And then the MagnaCut knives become the perfect excuse to buy diamond stones… because, hey, they work great on cheap stainless too, so it’s really two birds with one
For very damaged cheap knives, I use sandpaper on the Kasfly. Starting at maybe 180 or 240 grit.
Otherwise I use Chosera 400 with deburring (only) on Chosera 1k (800 would also be fine).
Recently, I have deburred a few times on a BBW instead and it does produce a pretty nice edge (although I'm not convinced that it lasts any better than deburring on 1k).
Otherwise I use Chosera 400 with deburring (only) on Chosera 1k (800 would also be fine).
Recently, I have deburred a few times on a BBW instead and it does produce a pretty nice edge (although I'm not convinced that it lasts any better than deburring on 1k).
I’d get a SG320 or JNS300 for this. I tried using my SG500 for the same application and it felt too slow. 180-220 stones just feel terrible on edges IMO, a 300-400 stone with decent feedback is a happy medium.
Also, this is a very good setup to recommend for cheap SS owners.
https://mtckitchen.com/suehiro-new-cerax-combination-280-1500-knife-sharpening-stone/
Also, this is a very good setup to recommend for cheap SS owners.
https://mtckitchen.com/suehiro-new-cerax-combination-280-1500-knife-sharpening-stone/
Just throwing it out there as I’ve found it quite helpful myself.
I’ve spent a bit of time learning the Kippington (tm) deburring method (there’s lots of videos around which a search can find). I was really struggling with deburring stainless (both cheap belters from family but also my own VG10), and I’ve found that method to be both more efficient and more effective at removing a sticky stubborn stainless burr than my previous methods. If you’re going to sharpen for friends and family, it’s got a bit of “theatre” to it as well, and getting comfortable with the method on someone else’s crappy stainless isn’t a bad thing either.
I’ve spent a bit of time learning the Kippington (tm) deburring method (there’s lots of videos around which a search can find). I was really struggling with deburring stainless (both cheap belters from family but also my own VG10), and I’ve found that method to be both more efficient and more effective at removing a sticky stubborn stainless burr than my previous methods. If you’re going to sharpen for friends and family, it’s got a bit of “theatre” to it as well, and getting comfortable with the method on someone else’s crappy stainless isn’t a bad thing either.
Vaughan
Konosuke taste, Tojiro budget
I’ll be sure to give it a go. My blades thankfully aren’t difficult to deburr so this will be something “fun” to look forward to.
Deburring is a multifaceted thing.
With many steels, it is indeed often easy to remove a large, obvious burr. But this will often leave a smaller burr behind which will limit the sharpness that you ultimately achieve.
In my case, learning to (more?) fully deburr was a key step in learning to make much sharper edges. A key step for me was learning pressure control. See Pete Nowlan's (@Sailor) Knife Planet Sharpening School video no3 for an explanation of this. I also use other techniques (feather-light edge leading strokes and the @Dave Martell double sharpening technique) but it was the pressure controlwas the first change that made a huge difference for me and I recommend that you focus on that first.
The alternative is the KDM (search Kippington deburring video), which is much quicker and easier and works very well. Minor downsides are that you get a microbevel which slightly limits hair splitting sharpness (but is not noticeable in kitchen use) and it can be difficult touch up a microbevel because you would have to match the angle exactly. Oh, and it feels a bit weird the first few times, but the results are worth it.
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You can intervene in behavior without being mean. A little education goes a long way. But, I guess if it came to that, I would of had to be seen as the mad one. My house, my stuff, my rules. I'd expect the same at their house.
Vaughan
Konosuke taste, Tojiro budget
There’s a bit to this rubbing steel on a rock thing isn’t there.
But in all seriousness, all of these intricacies have been really interesting to discover. As I said I’m only starting out really and have a long way to go in getting a clean edge off my 800. Still too reliant on stropping but hard to argue with the results.
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SolidSnake03
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I highly support everyone's diamond recommendation as well regarding vitrified diamonds in a matrix like the Naniwa stuff, JKI stuff or others out there. If you don't have those or dont want to spend the money on those my typical go to set up for other peoples terrible stainless (if my diamonds aren't around) is Shapton Pro 120>1k>2k.
Basically get a burr on the 120 which is pretty easy and fast, then I sharpen on the 1k and 2k for maybe 10-20 seconds and use a handful or two of some edge leading strokes on those stones to make sure the edge is pretty clean. This will leave a mean bitey edge that will last a really long time. Bonus too is that the Shapton Pro 1k and 2k are just excellent stones on basically everything so they are worth having regardless of sharpening peoples terrible knives or not. Like the Shapton 2k leaves an incredible working edge on nice stainless or carbon steel as well. Blue #2 especially with a Shapton 2k edge seems to just last and last.
Basically get a burr on the 120 which is pretty easy and fast, then I sharpen on the 1k and 2k for maybe 10-20 seconds and use a handful or two of some edge leading strokes on those stones to make sure the edge is pretty clean. This will leave a mean bitey edge that will last a really long time. Bonus too is that the Shapton Pro 1k and 2k are just excellent stones on basically everything so they are worth having regardless of sharpening peoples terrible knives or not. Like the Shapton 2k leaves an incredible working edge on nice stainless or carbon steel as well. Blue #2 especially with a Shapton 2k edge seems to just last and last.
Vaughan
Konosuke taste, Tojiro budget
Completely understand that and maybe if it was a more expensive knife I’d have done so. When I do end up getting some nicer blades I’ll probably hide them when visitors stay.
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I rely on perimeter defense -- most people never see my good knives, and if you're using something from the decoy knife block, I'm not even going to twitch if you cut on granite.
If someone gets past the perimeter defense, then they are probably enough of a friend that I feel comfortable correcting them. I've had to do this.
As a final resort, I would arrange a little one-act play with my wife, one of us doing the same bad thing that the guest is doing, the other correcting.
"Oh, honey, could you not cut directly on the countertop? Remember when that one knife got chips in it because you did that?"
"Sorry, you're right, I don't know what I was thinking."
I visited my sister recently and brought along my SG500 since I had given her a Shun VG10 years ago before I got into knives. I figured I’d sharpen the Shun and her other cheap stainless knives.
Well I got the Shun and one cheap knife done (a Global I think). But it was so painful I decided “screw it” and just found her electric pull-through sharpener and used that on the rest. When the knives are going to get dull again after the first use due to the soft steel, it just didn’t seem worth the effort to do them by hand.
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I love my Shapton Glass stones, but they are absolutely terrible with both Shun and Global. I've done both, and struggled with both the unpleasant sharpening feel, and the difficulty of converging on sharpness.
I like to think of it as the stone having some taste.
I use a Worksharp Ken Onion with my German knifes. My Henckels 4 star and my Wusthof Classic knives will sharpen at 15 degrees. I tried on some of my daughter's Cutco knives, but they will not sharpen at 15 degrees. You need 20 or 25 degrees for them to hold an edge.
So, to me there seems to be a wide selection of stainless steel. They are not all the same.
So, to me there seems to be a wide selection of stainless steel. They are not all the same.
When I sharpen my family and friends’ knives, I almost always start at 220. Shapton pro works well for me. King 300 as a less expensive option. You can go to the NP 800 after that, but for me the Shapton Glass 500 is the best for cheap stainless. It deburrs better than anything I’ve used on cheap stainless. No need to go higher than that IMO. Just some stropping on bare leather or cardboard and good to go.
Of course vitrified diamond stones would be the best option, but they are really expensive and hard to come by.
Of course vitrified diamond stones would be the best option, but they are really expensive and hard to come by.
Honerabi
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10" DMT DuoSharp Bench Stone coarse/fine with stand worked well when out in the field.Honerabi
Well-Known Member
Check out Knife Steel Nerds@ Knife Steel Nerds - Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel
Partial to SST for a long time, but carbon steel stays sharper for longer. SST has quite a history
from 304 all the way up to 904L.
I was going to comment about the Kipppington deburr for cheap stainless. I have also found it generally works better than my other techniques for soft stainless.
Ah yeah, that does sound a similar approach doesn't it. Not the first time that's happened either - @ethompson and I quite often come to similar conclusions about various aspects of sharpening, independently of each other.
Be interested to hear what you make of this kind of method / thinking when you try it out. I imagine you'll be quite impressed tbh; I sharpen dozens and dozens of cheap stainless knives every week, and I'm pretty categorically confident that this is the best, fastest, and easiest way to do it. There's a fair bit of talk on this thread about deburring. But ime I'm not sure that's the best way to be thinking about cheap stainless; it very rarely forms burrs in the way that good 'carbon' steels do, and even when it does it never deburrs like them. You need to treat it quite roughly and draw edges out.
I have a half-baked theory about why this is, but bear in mind that I'm no metallurgist... My impression is that on steels that have relatively high wear resistance in comparison to their HRC you start to see the dulling effect of rubbing something on a stone outweigh the abrasive sharpening effect. A phenomena which is going to be exacerbated by leading strokes, and diminished or eradicated by trailing.
Though obviously it is very easy to draw out a burr or wire edge type thing by finishing like this, so you then need to strop very hard (or possibly loaded) to beat the final edge into submission. It's basically a completely different methodology to what I do for quality steels.
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Same! I de-burr with the Kippington method to get rid of the stubborn stainless burrs and it works wonders. I usually start at 200 grit (nanohone) and finish/deburr on JKI vitrified 800. I've never found the need to deburr between grits, but that's another conversation all together.
My mom used to be the same way, 80% of cutting done with a paring knife against her thumb. She could bang out some stuff that way.
I'll do it for some trimming and cutting here and there but she could really get sh*t done with a paring knife. Learned it from her mother and older sister.
Her older sister was an amazing cook, rattle out spaetzle like a machine gun and debone and tie up a whole turkey in about eight minutes. The eight minutes might not seem impressive but at her job they had to be perfect, no excess skin, and not waste any meat.
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All those hours devoted to the path leading to mastery of sharpening (not there yet), and I have no idea how to accomplish "almost sharp."
Maybe I need to get a glass cutting board, to finish on.
Maybe I need to get a glass cutting board, to finish on.
When I think of carbon steels, I think of steels like 1095 that rust easily. I am old and remember the steels of 1960 and 1970s. And they did not hold an edge very long. I have some D2 steel knives, and I don't really think of them as carbon steel. I think they are, but I am too old for that, and my first impression is of the latter. The others I consider super steels like D2. I know D2 is old now, but I bought them probably 15 years ago. I don't chase steel anymore.
I am not sure there are a lot of takers for super steels as you need to give up conventional sharpening methods and stones.
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What cotedepy & Snake said, established edge on Shapton 1k (est 800 grit), refined with Cerax 1000 (1300) with 8ish strokes, then 10 trailing edge on columbia gorge 10m diamond (1500), and that's the sharpest I've had my moms old 1970 Chicago Cutlery knife. Thanks for the tips. I think minimal strokes helps the edge retain integrity, whereas too many degrades the soft edge.
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A friend saw stones sitting out and asked if I could sharpen some of his knives. It sounds like they are Calphalon. Read through this thread and others and got some tips. No diamond stones, so I'll likely go 200-400-1000.
Should I thin? Ultimately I'll get his feedback, but I've got concerns about him being unhappy that the factory finish is messed up getting the knives thinner BTE. He told me they probably haven't been sharpened in 10 years... I've got a nice range of micromesh pads I could use to blend the scuffs, but I'm not sure how well it will turn out.
Should I thin? Ultimately I'll get his feedback, but I've got concerns about him being unhappy that the factory finish is messed up getting the knives thinner BTE. He told me they probably haven't been sharpened in 10 years... I've got a nice range of micromesh pads I could use to blend the scuffs, but I'm not sure how well it will turn out.
big D
Well-Known Member
( referring to a knife with a small in width edge bevel ) I would likely never thin a common knife for someone else, for performance alone. I would consider thinning a knife that has obviously been sharpened, to where the edge bevel width has grown substantially. I would never offer to thin a knife without confirming that the person is aware of cosmetic changes, and is okay with that. Cosmetics in my opinion are huge to the common person. Having said that, simply putting as good of an edge as you, or the steel is capable of, will more than likely provide a very happy person, because it is so much sharper than what they are use to.
Edited for clarification- which are in parentheses.
Edited for clarification- which are in parentheses.
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If he's been using them that long, they've seen very little material loss and a possible sensitivity to the finish, I'd skip thinning and just sharpen.
