I'm all about sharpening knives of friends, neighbors, and coworkers, but thinning isn't going to happen unless we are really good friends. Aint nobody got time for that.
Sharpening **** stainless
- Thread starter Vaughan
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I'd thin a bit just behind the edge, if it's thick, just not up the blade face. Otherwise sharpen as normal.
That's what I do for friends. The beauty of these knives that haven't been sharpened for years is that geometry is basically what it was from the factory. Might not be ideal, but no need to try to improve factory performance. Just sharpen it and they will be happy for some time. Until they realize the beauty of the sharp knife and ask you constantly to sharpen because their expectations of what it should be like changed.
Step 1) check if it actually needs thinning.
Step 2) If it does, ask yourself how well you want the knives to perform, and if you care enough, ask if he cares if the finish changes. If he doesn’t, thin a bit. If he does, f it.
Step 2) If it does, ask yourself how well you want the knives to perform, and if you care enough, ask if he cares if the finish changes. If he doesn’t, thin a bit. If he does, f it.
Encountered similar situation yesterday. After dinner at their place I offered, so they hauled out a set of Zwilling, a Giesser, and a Tsubazo. I asked which they wanted sharpened and they said please please please, all of them please. I got out the SG kit.
I started with the two that the helper declared were her favourites. Because she is left handed I reground to a lefty bias. I didn’t thin the blade face (0°) but I did rebevel about 3–4mm from the apex, convexing, averaging 10° on the right and 14° on the left. That scratched up the finish some, at the high spots, particularly as I wasn’t near the sink so the swarf silted up. The stone kept cutting though, go SG220.
It took some time at what Peter Nowlan calls P4 – maybe 10–15 minutes per side – to rebevel and raise burr. I kept going past that point, with @Benuser’s words echoing in my mind about reaching the very edge, all along the length of the blade. Near the heel I raised the angle substantially and scrubbed at the lesser-used corners of the stone.
Then I deburred at 45° a la the latest thread on
I used thumbnail to keep checking the edge. It told me the knife was dull vs sharp, it told me I had a burr leaning left vs right, it told me the tips and heels needed more work.
I also checked progress of the convexing and edge angles by the reflection of the ceiling lamp. Taking the delta between light reflecting off the blade face, and the reflection disappearing from the apex (candling), told me my angles were bigger than I wanted, so back to scrubbing at SG220.
Only had time for one paper towel test. Didn’t fall through; it did slice with occasional resistance; but no tearing.
After doing three knives this way I got The Phone Call so I allowed 5min each for the remaining knives. They had the geometry of a bench scraper. 25° per side sharpening only, no thinning, maximum pressure. Deburring then another couple light passes on the SG2000 at 30°, good enough, done.
All numbers approximate.
Now I’m waiting for the follow-up call saying they did, after all, use the band-aids I left behind.
I think most people tend to keep one knife in reserve as The Sharp Knife and use the heck out of the rest. So it’s worth thinning the 10" Henckels reserved for beef slicing, and it’s worth thinning the favourite, but the rest can just get the restaurant-beater @stringer treatment, optimizing for time.
I started with the two that the helper declared were her favourites. Because she is left handed I reground to a lefty bias. I didn’t thin the blade face (0°) but I did rebevel about 3–4mm from the apex, convexing, averaging 10° on the right and 14° on the left. That scratched up the finish some, at the high spots, particularly as I wasn’t near the sink so the swarf silted up. The stone kept cutting though, go SG220.
It took some time at what Peter Nowlan calls P4 – maybe 10–15 minutes per side – to rebevel and raise burr. I kept going past that point, with @Benuser’s words echoing in my mind about reaching the very edge, all along the length of the blade. Near the heel I raised the angle substantially and scrubbed at the lesser-used corners of the stone.
Then I deburred at 45° a la the latest thread on
and reconstructed the apex at 15–20° edge-leading after the deburring. Repeated a couple times at SG500 and SG1000 to minimize new burr and refresh the apex, finally allowing myself an apex angle of 20–25° per side on SG2000 as a reward for thinning – thanks to the @cotedupy perched on my other shoulder.
I used thumbnail to keep checking the edge. It told me the knife was dull vs sharp, it told me I had a burr leaning left vs right, it told me the tips and heels needed more work.
I also checked progress of the convexing and edge angles by the reflection of the ceiling lamp. Taking the delta between light reflecting off the blade face, and the reflection disappearing from the apex (candling), told me my angles were bigger than I wanted, so back to scrubbing at SG220.
Only had time for one paper towel test. Didn’t fall through; it did slice with occasional resistance; but no tearing.
After doing three knives this way I got The Phone Call so I allowed 5min each for the remaining knives. They had the geometry of a bench scraper. 25° per side sharpening only, no thinning, maximum pressure. Deburring then another couple light passes on the SG2000 at 30°, good enough, done.
All numbers approximate.
Now I’m waiting for the follow-up call saying they did, after all, use the band-aids I left behind.
I think most people tend to keep one knife in reserve as The Sharp Knife and use the heck out of the rest. So it’s worth thinning the 10" Henckels reserved for beef slicing, and it’s worth thinning the favourite, but the rest can just get the restaurant-beater @stringer treatment, optimizing for time.
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How did you like the high angle deburring?
It worked well enough. I didn't have my microscope with me so I couldn't check visually, and I didn't do the smack-on-board thing to test for wire edge, so the possibility remains that I didn't deburr fully. But the edges felt good against my fingertips and microbeveling at a high angle with less pressure probably saved me from endless burr.
After watching and reading more from Cliff Stamp and what he says to do with a burr, coupled with a lot of practice, I really like it now. It's giving me my best edges yet. Cliff explains bending metal back and forth you still have damaged steel beyond the point it breaks off so not only do you skip the back and forth, it also gets rid of all the damaged steel, leaving your edges to last even longer. I'm really curious about his burrless sharpening method now. Supposedly barely removes metal making the knife last longer compared to burr based sharpening
Yes, after my good knives are dialed in, I tend to prefer that approach, just removing enough steel to form a new apex.
The advice to form a palpable burr tends to be aimed at beginners looking for a foolproof way to end up sharper than they started. It's justified by the likelihood of microchips which need to be removed anyway. But after the first sharpening, it can be seen as wasting steel.
If you're shaving your face, you know the hair is gone if the entire patch of skin is missing, but why go that far?
Pleateau sharpening isn't for beginners because they don't have enough of a mental model and enough experience to have the intuition to know when they've reached the edge, other than by feeling for burr. It's a bit like giving someone road directions – "turn left just before you can see the church, if you can see the church, you've gone too far"
The advice to form a palpable burr tends to be aimed at beginners looking for a foolproof way to end up sharper than they started. It's justified by the likelihood of microchips which need to be removed anyway. But after the first sharpening, it can be seen as wasting steel.
If you're shaving your face, you know the hair is gone if the entire patch of skin is missing, but why go that far?
Pleateau sharpening isn't for beginners because they don't have enough of a mental model and enough experience to have the intuition to know when they've reached the edge, other than by feeling for burr. It's a bit like giving someone road directions – "turn left just before you can see the church, if you can see the church, you've gone too far"
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I'm sure this plateau method will still take me some practice and learning before getting it right but I like the idea of it. Are you a fan of Cliff Stamp?
I definitely felt a connection to the old-school ways when I got tired of replacing the stones in the holder, and just in-handed the SG500. Like a real man.
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You are going about this in an admirable way. Complete persistence. Picking up ideas from all over and trying them out with your hands. This seems like a good path to success, to discovering what works well for you.
As far as watching sharpening videos, I admire a lot more people than I try to emulate.
Thank you my friend. I appreciate that. It's not always easy, sometimes it's like right when I start getting good at one way I see another way I kind of like so I have to try it and if I like it then I'm kind of starting over learning again. One day though, I hope to be a pro and slicing paper towel like butter. A big part of it is my OCD also haha
Just wrapped up my friend’s knife set. No thinning needed, knives had never been sharpened in 12 years. Did JKI200-JKI400-King800 and the edges seemed pretty nice. Toothy, but even.
Bonus, he brought over his hunting knife (D2). I finally found a good use for a King 300. Was able to lean into it pretty hard and take out several good sized chips in minutes.
He was happy with everything. But 1 hr 45 mins for 7 knives means I definitely don’t want to ever think of it as an income source!
Bonus, he brought over his hunting knife (D2). I finally found a good use for a King 300. Was able to lean into it pretty hard and take out several good sized chips in minutes.
He was happy with everything. But 1 hr 45 mins for 7 knives means I definitely don’t want to ever think of it as an income source!
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