Shun Premier vs. Shun Reserves

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unkajonet said:
BDD - have you spoken to any of the vendors who have sub-forums here? Both the custom makers and the vendors who carry multiple lines of knives all have excellent reputations as far as product and customer service.
A few people have come close to saying it, but have not flat out said it: for the amount of money you're willing to spend, you're doing yourself a disservice by not at least seeing what some of the other vendors have to offer. If you want something from Shun, by all means, get it. But IMO, just a little more research will get you a much better product.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. The more, the merrier.
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Hello unkajonet,

No I haven't checked the vendors who have sub-forums here. Will check them out.

I'm not just looking at Shun. Other brands include...MAC, Tojiro, Takeda, Konosuke, Masamoto, Moritaka...etc. I was just curious what people thought of Shun Premiers and Reserves. And no I don't have to buy a set. :)

Knives I am buying are...chef's, bread, carving/fork, utility. + steak knives (and thank u to the poster's tip on finding Tojiro steak knives...found the online vendor).

And thanks for the welcome.
 
I'm a little late to the party here, but....

About nine months ago I was where you are now, trying to figure out what knives to buy. My research, which, unfortunately, I did on my own, led me to the Shun classic line. It was later that I found this forum and realized how much better, and smarter I could have been.

Here are the questions I wish I had asked then.

How many knives do I really need, at least to start with? The wisdom found in these forums indicates that a good starting point is a chefs knife (guyoto), a utility knife (petty) and a paring knife.

What lengths should these knives be? Go to a store and play with some. What feels best in your hand? How big a cooking space do you have? How big is your cutting board? A 270mm guyoto is going to be awkward to use on a 12" cutting board.

What kind of handle should I get. Again, go to a store a feel the difference between western and wa, the difference between octagonal and D shaped.

Do I want stainless or carbon?

How important are aesthetics?

What's my budget?

What's important in the performance of the knives, edge retention, sharpening ease?

If you answer these questions they will dramatically narrow the field of consideration and your purchase will be one of the head as well as the heart. Remember, if you're willing to spent a grand or so on knives they should last you a long time and you should love it every time you pick one up.
 
$300+ for a single knife? The only reason I'm considering the Reserves is that they offered an "essentials" knife set that was priced comparable to what i would have ended up spending if i went for the Premiers + carving/fork set. Otherwise I wouldn't be looking at $300 knives being just some one who enjoys cooking.

I'm sure i'd be happy with any $100-200 Japanese chef's knife. Or bread knife. Carving. Most knives I have been looking at are under $200 each. With the odd exception where there was a $230 Masamoto. I think the Moritaka gyuto 210mm was a hair over $300.

Just looking for high quality knives for home use. I'm far from being a fanatic like most of you here. So, in the end, I think it will come down to how the knives look to me and how they feel in my hand. I'm sure all the knives being mentioned here and those that I'm looking at will be more than "sharp enough".
 
BDD said:
Just looking for high quality knives for home use. I'm far from being a fanatic like most of you here. So, in the end, I think it will come down to how the knives look to me and how they feel in my hand. I'm sure all the knives being mentioned here and those that I'm looking at will be more than "sharp enough".
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Sharp enough is great for the first week or so, then it depends on what you do to keep it that way. Most here actually improve on the factory edge--which is usually not that great anyway...
 
chinacats said:
Sharp enough is great for the first week or so, then it depends on what you do to keep it that way. Most here actually improve on the factory edge--which is usually not that great anyway...
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Are you referring to all types of factory knives? German (Wusthof), Japanese (Shun, Tojirio)...etc. I would have thought the degree of sharpness coming out of the factory would last for weeks if not months. In "typical" home use (e.g. preparing dinner almost 7 days a week).

I would probably hone the knife periodically. I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year. Unless they did their own sharpening at home with whetstones (or a quality electric sharpener).

Would handmade knives keep their edge longer under the same conditions (e.g. Takeda)?
 
I am a home cook, and like my knives extremely sharp...I wind up touching up on stones about every 3-4 weeks, but use a rotation of 7-8 knives. It depends on how you use them and what you call sharp! I don't know what an electric sharpener would do, but wouldn't use one on any knife I liked or spent a bunch of money on...

I think maybe you should look more into the profile you want...Sabatier and Shun which you mention are not at all similar knives...
 
BDD said:
...I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year.
..
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Where did you read this? :D

I should stop wasting my time and buy myself a Shun then.

M
 
BDD said:
Are you referring to all types of factory knives? German (Wusthof), Japanese (Shun, Tojirio)...etc. I would have thought the degree of sharpness coming out of the factory would last for weeks if not months. In "typical" home use (e.g. preparing dinner almost 7 days a week).

I would probably hone the knife periodically. I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year. Unless they did their own sharpening at home with whetstones (or a quality electric sharpener).

Would handmade knives keep their edge longer under the same conditions (e.g. Takeda)?
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Sharp is a relative term. Sharp for most home users would probably mean slicing a tomato cleanly. Sharp here means being able to push your knife down on the tomato and have it pierce the skin without it flexing.
Every knife you get at sur la table (Wusthof, Shun, Miyabi, etc) can be made sharper in around 3 minutes on a 1k sharpening stone with little to no experience. Would out of the box (OOTB) sharpness on these knives be enough for most people? Yes. Would it last a year without being sharpened? No.

Handmade isn't the really relevant to edge holding ability. It has to do with what steel the knife is made with and how it is heat treated. Using your example a takeda will hold an edge longer than a shun or wusthof. A custom knife from any of the vendors here would also. Just because of the quality of materials they use.
 
BDD said:
Are you referring to all types of factory knives? German (Wusthof), Japanese (Shun, Tojirio)...etc. I would have thought the degree of sharpness coming out of the factory would last for weeks if not months. In "typical" home use (e.g. preparing dinner almost 7 days a week).

I would probably hone the knife periodically. I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year. Unless they did their own sharpening at home with whetstones (or a quality electric sharpener).

Would handmade knives keep their edge longer under the same conditions (e.g. Takeda)?
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Oh my!

Personally: I buy nice quality knives for the sole reason to be able to get the most out of them as a tool. This means that I keep them at or above 90% of their cutting potential (ball park figure) and enjoy doing so. Being able to do so is just as important as the quality of the knives.

Out of the box sharpness is rarely anywhere near 90%. I often times use a knife for a day before digging in and sharpening it, just to see where it is.

I tend towards carbon steel knives because they get very sharp quite quickly and easily. Touching them up by stropping on a fine 'finishing' stone only takes a few minutes.

One way or another, to get the most out of these tools, you will need to tune and maintain them. For some German knives are great: just use a steel on a regular basis and redefine the bevel on a stone as needed.

Cheers!
rj
 
Buy now? I'm living In LA temporarily and won't be home till the end of the year. So no. Not yet. :)

Sharp. Relative term depending on your knowledge or experience I think. Before I joined knife forums I assumed any knife sold at a major department store (e.g. Henckels, KitchenAid...etc.) was "sharp". If it could cut your veggies and meat it was "sharp". Little did I know knives could be sharp enough to pass through a tomato sitting on the table with ease. Without moving the tomato. Paper thin slices.

Any how thanks for your help people. As a home cook I'm sure I'll be happy with any of the brands I mentioned. Question for me that still remains is do I do some mixing/matching (e.g. 1 Takeda gyuto + a few Tojiro + Shun Premier carving/fork) or just buy one brand. Dunno yet..will most again later this year after I've bought my knives.
 
If you're in LA, I would suggest visiting Japanese Knife Imports. Jon is a great guy to talk knives with, and has a great stock to choose from.
 
You should go to Japanese Knife Imports, it would be a greatly educational trip and you could probably handle some great knives. I am sure Jon would work with you to find the best setup for your needs.
 
i'd get a set of Tojiro DPs and pocket the difference. well, i wouldn't, but you might want to.
 
I would say watch they BST forum here. that and a Rodrigue fork. XD
 
You should figure out what knife you are going to use most. Buy a awesome knife for whatever it happens to cost and work from there. If you're in LA, you'd be foolish, not to go see Jon. He has a load of stuff you can put your hands on and oddly, he will actually try to dissuade you from buying something he doesn't think you will really want.
 
most=post

While in LA...if I happen to be in the area of the shop..sure why not. For the hell of it. But as I said I'll be flying home at the end of the year. For that reason I won't be buying any knives here. Talking to Jon and handling some knives to get a quick idea about how certain knives feel? Perhaps.

Best to buy locally IMHO. Thanks again people. See ya all in a few months.
 
I know this thread is now dead, but the smartest thing I ever could have done with my "first knife" was buy a Misono moly.
It taught me a lot about geometry, thinness behind the edge, proper technique for a more "delicate" knife, I learned to really sharpen on it, etc. At the time, the price was right and it's the knife I pick up most often, even with better knives in my stable. I beat on it pretty hard and it loves the work. If I am staying out of town, I bring it. If I'm making a meal outside, where things get forgotten due to drinks and sunshine, it's my right...ahem...left-hand man.
I really wish they'd rethink their current pricing, as I think it was one of the best bargains out there.
 
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