Supplemental Jnat finisher

[K813zra]

You're on the right track with Ohira awasedo then and mizukihara is also a great option along those lines. And softer Aiiwatani then becomes a great choice too. But you'd still a need some sort of stepping stone from binsu or Ikarashi up to that alternate finisher.

Okay, I think I have the idea now. Thank you!

 

[K813zra]

You're on the right track with Ohira awasedo then and mizukihara is also a great option along those lines. And softer Aiiwatani then becomes a great choice too. But you'd still a need some sort of stepping stone from binsu or Ikarashi up to that alternate finisher.

As an update, after speaking with Mr. Watanabe I have decided to pick up an Aizu. We sent a few exchanges and he suggested one to me. I am just waiting for a confirmation email. Time difference and all.

He does suggest that this is a difficult stone to use but didn't get into a lot of detail, though. Guess I will have to spend some time with it.

 

[Badgertooth]

Good choice! They are hard for midgrit stones. But his advice is golden - work behind the edge first to work up a little togidoro then keep things moving with a little water before you hit the edge. It feels "scrapier" than it is, and actually leaves a very nice looking finish. Let us know how you get on with it.

 

[K813zra]

Good choice! They are hard for midgrit stones. But his advice is golden - work behind the edge first to work up a little togidoro then keep things moving with a little water before you hit the edge. It feels "scrapier" than it is, and actually leaves a very nice looking finish. Let us know how you get on with it.

I will report back for sure. He suggested a particular stone to me because he felt it was faster than the others and would be better for a beginner. It is interesting to hear that you feel they are harder for a mid grit as he says they are quite soft but that might be relative to stones in general. I think the hardest feeling mid grit is my Tajima but I am not so sure that it is as hard as it feels, maybe more of a dense feeling.

 

[K813zra]

Okay, all done and stones will be on their way. I assume they will ship Monday as I do not know if they ship at the weekends in Japan. Anyway, I ended up with #2 Ikarashi (I know it is a narrow stone but I was drawn to it and I already work with a few stones that size.) and #10 Aizu (a very pretty stone and I am told it is fast compared to the others). I will let you know more when I get them.

This is addictive. I already have Omura(wakayama), Aoto, Monzento, Tajima and Yaginoshima Asagi. I think I am covered for mid range now. After a few months I think it will be time to get something else in the finer range. Maybe a softer Ohira Tomae or Suita. Good thing for me that I have a birthday coming up!

 

[K813zra]

So, I got my stones from Watanabe today. Both the Ikarashi and the Aizu but there is a third stone and I only ordered two. Now, every time I have ordered from Mr. Watanabe I always get an extra gift but it is normally something like a towel etc. I am guessing this is a large tomo for the Aizu?

Aizu (left) Ikarashi (middle) Tomo? (right)

I will send an email thanking Mr. Watanabe for the extra and confirming.:lol2: They look and feel rather similar.

Edit: Sorry for the phone photo, I am no photographer.
And I got the stones in 5 days! Tracking says they are still in Tokyo, lol.

 

[tgfencer]

Let us know what you think after you've had the chance to use it. Watanabe is a good guy, I've heard its quite common for him to throw in a freebie.

 

[K813zra]

Let us know what you think after you've had the chance to use it. Watanabe is a good guy, I've heard its quite common for him to throw in a freebie.

Yeah he is a good guy to work with. I just want to make sure it should be used as a nagura before using it that way. They look similar enough and feel similar but the smaller stone has a more coarse feel but that is because it has a saw kerf on all sides.

 

[tgfencer]

Probably a good idea, doesnt hurt to double check!

 

[K813zra]

Probably a good idea, doesnt hurt to double check!

Yep, sent an email thanking him and asking. It is the size of a small sharpening stone! Almost 6x2.

 

[foody518]

Nice! Help ya kick up a little loose grit on that Aizu

 

[K813zra]

Nice! Help ya kick up a little loose grit on that Aizu

I can't wait to give it a try! It feels a lot smoother than I was expecting.

Any suggestions on whether or not I should seal it? I have yet to seal any of my stones. The only stones that are lacquered came that way. I have the thread on how to seal a stone saved but I live in the middle of nowhere and it looks like I will have to order de-waxed shellac as or local big box stores do not sell it. Well, lowes does but in 5gal...I can have it shipped to the store though.

 

[K813zra]

Okay, everyone asked me to report in on how I like the new stones. I tried both the Ikarashi and the Aizu but I have not touched the smaller, what I assume to be, nagura as of yet.

Ikarashi: This stone is straight forward. It feels smooth to the touch but gritty in use. It is fast to produce swarf but is not aggressive. That is a little deceptive as it seems like you are removing more metal than you are. Regardless, it is fast enough and leaves an edge somewhere in the 1k+/- range. Very toothy edge that would be great on a petty or Suji but I am sure I am not telling you anything that you do not already know. Not fast enough for me to want to start on, though. Perfect to follow my Omura, which is what I wanted!

Aizu: This one is deceptive. It does not feel dense, it is quite light. It feels uber smooth to the touch but it is aggressive as all get out! 1 stroke and I already have swarf but no mud. The stone is a lot, and I mean a lot, harder than I expected. It does not have give like my Tajima does. The stone, at least on the edge of a narrow bevel, has less feedback than other mid grit stones that I have but more than something like my Yaginoshima Asagi. The edge it leaves has just enough tooth for me and yet it is refined. It will push cut newsprint and paper towel (not free hanging) but you have to go slow. I will put the knives to the board tonight and see what they feel like. Mr. Watanabe puts the Tajima at about 2k (I'd say coarser) and if that is the case this is more like 3k. I don't really like comparing to synthetic edges though because they cut differently. I mean, it is sharp similar to a 3k but a different kind of sharp.

The knives used were as follows:

Rada Santoku: 420 at about 52
Suisin WI Gyuto: AUS8 58 +/-
Tojiro ITK: White #2 60+/-

Both stones abrade stainless, at least these two basic types, without issue. I don't have anything more alloyed to test out as I use primarily White/Blue #2.

Just remember, I am by no means one of the better sharpeners out there and new to naturals so these stones may give even better results to someone more skilled. What I can say is that I am happy with both of them!

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Thanks for the write up. I'm 99% certain that's a mini Aizu… at least mine was. I got it as a gift with my aoto

Shinichi told me he included them as gifts for some customers. He also told me about using:

The Aizu also got from family of Aizu miner directly. You can use it as Nagura for Aoto and synthetic medium fine stones. The miner taught it to us.
Also please try to sharpen your knives on Aizu. Aizu is finer medium stone than Aoto.

Then when I later purchased a larger aoto the markings were the same.

 

[K813zra]

Thanks for the write up. I'm 99% certain that's a mini Aizu… at least mine was. I got it as a gift with my aoto

Shinichi told me he included them as gifts for some customers. He also told me about using:


Then when I later purchased a larger aoto the markings were the same.

Thank you! It is large enough to use as a travel stone too.

Edit: Yep, I got an email back and it is a small Aizu. Shinichi just said it was a gift for me and that I can use it as a Tomo or to sharpen smaller knives. No mystery now!

 

[tgfencer]

I'd seal the Aizu. Its easy and relatively quick to do as long as you aren't going the cashew lacquer route that I see no reason not too. Shellac, marine grade lacquer, spar urethane, nail polish etc all do the trick. You can either get them in cans and paintbrush it on or the spray-can variety. Just be sure to tape up the sharpening surface beforehand, lapping off spilled lacquer can be a pain.

 

[K813zra]

I'd seal the Aizu. Its easy and relatively quick to do as long as you aren't going the cashew lacquer route that I see no reason not too. Shellac, marine grade lacquer, spar urethane, nail polish etc all do the trick. You can either get them in cans and paintbrush it on or the spray-can variety. Just be sure to tape up the sharpening surface beforehand, lapping off spilled lacquer can be a pain.

Thank you for the advice! We have spray Shellac here at the local hardware store but it does not say if it is de-waxed. I had read in an old thread here that you should use de-waxed. Any idea if spray shellac would be okay to use? And no worries, I have loads of painters tape!

 

[aboynamedsuita]

I used cashew on mine, but agree about using the painters tape… I learned that lesson the hard way and have been lapping my stones bit by bit as time allows

 

[tgfencer]

Not sure about waxed vs unwaxed shellac, sorry, but I'm sure someone can chime in. Cashew is traditional and looks really cool to my mind, but just know what you are getting into before you decide. I'm a bit too lazy for that method personally. I prefer marine grade lacquer and spar urethane, easier to locate and cheaper. Oh and if you have stamps of anything on the side you want to be able to see later on, make sure you use something clear.

 

[K813zra]

Not sure about waxed vs unwaxed shellac, sorry, but I'm sure someone can chime in. Cashew is traditional and looks really cool to my mind, but just know what you are getting into before you decide. I'm a bit too lazy for that method personally. I prefer marine grade lacquer and spar urethane, easier to locate and cheaper. Oh and if you have stamps of anything on the side you want to be able to see later on, make sure you use something clear.

Is the Spar urethane Minwax indoor/outdoor clear stain? If so I can pick that up locally without an issue. Thanks again, I will make sure to get clear as some of my stones do have stamps on the sides and or bottoms.

 

[tgfencer]

Essentially, yes, its just a type of polyurethane and from my understanding pretty much any type of polyurethane will do. You can find a variety of brands in places like Home Depot, Lowes, and probably any hardware store. (I have a Mini-wax Helmsman can at the moment I believe). Oh and if you do end up using shellac (and I think you are right about the wanting the non-wax variety) take a look at this link and post #24 in particular.

http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/64627-ozuku-jnat-problem-using-shellac-3.html

 

[K813zra]

Essentially, yes, its just a type of polyurethane and from my understanding pretty much any type of polyurethane will do. You can find a variety of brands in places like Home Depot, Lowes, and probably any hardware store. (I have a Mini-wax Helmsman can at the moment I believe). Oh and if you do end up using shellac (and I think you are right about the wanting the non-wax variety) take a look at this link and post #24 in particular.

http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/64627-ozuku-jnat-problem-using-shellac-3.html

Thanks, reading it now. Minwax Helmsman is exactly what is available locally so that is not an issue. It is inexpensive too.

 

[K813zra]

As an update: In my email Mr. Watanabe told me to try sharpening with the mini Aizu to see what I thought of it. I flattened it last night as it was rough cut and let it sit. I used it this morning and it is fairly different than the larger one. I will note before I say how it was different that I did smooth it out on the larger Aizu after flattening. Anyway, the smaller stone is very aggressive and grips the edge much more than the larger stone. I had a puddle of black swarf long before I had white mud settling on the surface. This stone is also coarser. If we compare the larger stone to a 3(ish)k synthetic then this one is closer to 1500. I would say more similar to the Tajima but much more aggressive. It leaves an edge with an insane amount of bite. Honestly, I think I could follow the little Aizu with the larger one in progression and treat them as different stones. What a useful gift!

 

[foody518]

Cool stuff. Have you tried sharpening yet using the smaller one as a tomo on the larger Aizu?

 

[K813zra]

Cool stuff. Have you tried sharpening yet using the smaller one as a tomo on the larger Aizu?

Yep, I just got done doing two more sessions. One on the Aizu with nagura and one on the Mini as the results were not sitting well with me.

Large Aizu: With tomo this improves the sharpening feeling a lot. It cuts even faster to start off, this is already an aggressive stone but seems to get finer faster with slurry. The mud is white. I did not seem to get a different edge quality though, still around 3kish.

Mini Aizu: This one is still more aggressive than the larger stone but I worked the bevel much longer and it seems to have given me a more refined edge. It is still coarser than the larger stone but I took off some of that bite. It feels that the edge is a little closer to the larger stone now but still behind it. That is not a bad thing depending on what you want to do. What I can say is that I like this little stone a lot and the fact that it was a gift makes it even more special because honestly I think it is my favorite of the three stones that came in the mail yesterday! Dulling my edge on a brick I can bring it back with this stone and then continue until it is refined (don't cringe as it is just a Tojiro that I use for practice). It is a great one stone solution if needed, at least in terms of keeping the edge touched up between full progressions.

I will have to take some more photos even though I am not good at that sort of thing. I want to share my enthusiasm for this stone. The swarf just puddles up instantly but slowly over time it releases a thin milky colored mud that refuses to dry up or thicken even when the stone itself starts to dry out. The mud mixes with the swarf and turns a grey color and then it seems to slow down, it may just seem this way as I can no longer see the swarf due to the color of the mud or maybe that is just the way natural stones work. Again, I am new at this and I don't think I have resonated with a stone like I have with this one. I just couldn't stop and had to pull out more knives.

I don't want to get too excited just yet. I need to test it on other steels over time to make sure I am not just jumping for joy over a new stone.

 

[Badgertooth]

 

[K813zra]

I'm glad you all suggested it to me! It was not at the top of my radar but the overwhelming votes for the stone gave me that itch and I couldn't be happier.

 

[Krassi]

Ah nice! Shinichi also mentioned a small Aizu that he added too my package.. so lets see what to do with that nice small Aizu!

 

[K813zra]

Ah nice! Shinichi also mentioned a small Aizu that he added too my package.. so lets see what to do with that nice small Aizu!

If yours is like mine, it may be small but it is big enough to sharpen on. About 150x50.

 

[Krassi]

Hiho!

@K813zra
No need to sharpen on it because i have a really excellent bricksize vintage Aizu (210x70x60mm)

But ill try it as a Tomo Nagura on the other Aizu.
On my Finishers it would be to coarse.. i have a pure white Koma Nagura that rocks the house (supposed to be from Iwasaki collection)

Ok well Shinichi told me that this size is too big for a Nagura.. i tried my 160x50 very good Nakayama Koppa and Okudo kuro renge Suita Koppa as a Nagura, but nope ..no fun and sticks on the other stone because its to big.
But Aizu on Aizu could be fun or on my Ikarashi..

Seeya, Daniel