Thinking of a copper pan - need some help

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Trying to converge - I am putting together a list of makers I would consider. I have so far:
- Mauviel (the M250 line) SS clad
- Falk Stainless Clad (it seems that all their pans in the relevant size have 2.5 thickness)
- Weyersberg - german manufacture making SS clad pans - I am contacting them to find out what thickness of copper they use
- Mazzetti - they make silver and tin clad pans. The silver plated ones (2.5mm copper) are on the expensive side (not that far off from Fals though). Their tim plated pans come at 2.5 and 3.0 copper thickness and have rather reasonable price.

Concerning design I am leaning towards a larger (28 or 30 cm) sauté pan with 2 loop handles (like the Falk stew pans). Main candidates are Falk and Mazzetti. Something tells me that this is not going to end up cheaply :) in particular with Mazzetti as they only sell the pan I have in mind with a lid.

I would in particular appreciate if there is some experience with Mazzetti pans - seems like a small producer and there is very little about them to be found online.

I am also not sure whether I should also get a copper lid together with the pan - at the relevant size these cost around 100€ which is about 1/3 price of the pan. Given that I do not use the lid on our Greenpan all that much it seems like overkill. :scratchhead:
 
The Falk covers are insanely expensive and they are not copper.

I see no reason to have a 'matching' cover other than aesthetics so use what you have or buy a plain steel or aluminum one that fits.

As far as Mazetti there's some discussion here.

The poster 'kaleokahu' seems very knowledgable about copper cookware and offers opinions in almost every discussion mentioning it.
 
Now that sounds strange - I mean the lids from Falk - on their webpage Falk states that these are made with 0.9mm copper and 0.1mm steel. But indeed - simpler (cheaper and lighter) lids will do the job too.

That one discussion on Mazzetti is interesting - the 'kaleokahu' mentions that the bottom of the pans is 'planished' - does this mean that it is not really smooth-flat and so not really suitable for electric (glass) stove?
 
Several years ago the (now prior) US distributor for Falk got a lot of grief for the lids being very expensive and not being copper. The US Falk website does not say anything specific about the covers other than their thicknesses. The pictures do look somewhat different than what I have, so perhaps they are copper now.

As I understand the term 'planishing' means working metal into shape by hammering. I would guess that the final finish depends on the size of the hammer and how much work the maker was willing to put into achieving flatness/smoothness. I think you'd have to see and handle one of the Mazzetti pieces to really know for sure.
 
Does Mazzetti have a US distributor? The cookware seems reasonably priced; however, I and chocking on the 67 euro for shipping.
 
OK, so I have got some answers from both Weyersberg and Mazzetti.

The pans from Weyersberg are 2mm thick. The Frying pan with 30cm diameter (2511-30) weights 2kg and has 3l volume.

Mazzetti pans - the bottom is indeed hammer finished - the 'flatness' of the bottom is within 0.5mm. They have attached a photo where one can see reflection of the background and the image is indeed slightly distorted.

The million dollar question is indeed - how much effect will this not perfectly flat surface have on the performance of the pan.

Here is the image:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0_W4o1WUz__a3NiVENmQ0JuNDBMa0syci1nc2UwQmtYdU8w/edit?usp=sharing

It may be of interest to know that the silver clad 30 cm pan (8cm tall with two loop handles) weights 3.2kg without the handle and costs 390€ without the lid (or 520€ with the lid - that makes it 130€ just for the lid).

Please note that I am only sharing this information to help others, not to promote Mazzetti (or any other maker for that matter)
 
I own a crap load of copper. I only get the 2.5mm Stainless Steel. I have pans from Mauviel and their offspring to E. Dehillerin, Falk, and Matfer Bourgeat. If I were you, I'd look on ebay. You can get them used for a fraction of the price. Of the 3 brands, I prefer Mauviel. I do not like Falk at all...can't stand their brushed interior and exterior. Plus food sticks more believe it or not. Bourgeat has a polished stainless steel interior that just looks exquisite. Their cast iron handles tarnish pretty quickly though. Mauviel is the best of the three in my opinion. I can't find any faults.

Watch out for salt pitting though. Only put salt in boiling water.
 
Just for the completeness - I have asked on other forum and the Mazzetti pans supposedly work very well on electric glas-top stoves inspite their hammer finished surface.

I am checking second-hnad sources, but it seems that what mostly comes up are tip plated pans in a condition that wold require re-tinning in the first place. There are rather few SS (or silver) clad pans. It takes probably some patience I guess :) Anyhow - I will take a little time to reconsider the options I guess. Contrary to hand made knives, this stuff has low resale value.
 
Matus said:
OK, so I have got some answers from both Weyersberg and Mazzetti.

The pans from Weyersberg are 2mm thick. The Frying pan with 30cm diameter (2511-30) weights 2kg and has 3l volume.

Mazzetti pans - the bottom is indeed hammer finished - the 'flatness' of the bottom is within 0.5mm. They have attached a photo where one can see reflection of the background and the image is indeed slightly distorted.

The million dollar question is indeed - how much effect will this not perfectly flat surface have on the performance of the pan.

Here is the image:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0_W4o1WUz__a3NiVENmQ0JuNDBMa0syci1nc2UwQmtYdU8w/edit?usp=sharing

It may be of interest to know that the silver clad 30 cm pan (8cm tall with two loop handles) weights 3.2kg without the handle and costs 390€ without the lid (or 520€ with the lid - that makes it 130€ just for the lid).

Please note that I am only sharing this information to help others, not to promote Mazzetti (or any other maker for that matter)
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing Matus, this thread is very interesting to me as I am also thinking of getting some copperware :)
 
I got bitten by the copper bug this summer, and have acquired a nearly full set of stuff from various places, mostly eBay.

Re-tinning can be easily, if sloppily, done on the gas grill or turkey fryer burner, some fiberglass insulation, and paste solder flux. Watch you don't burn yourself, but it's not all that difficult to get a fairly even layer of tin on the inside of the pan. 4% silver in tin food grade solder works well too. DO NOT DO THIS INSIDE!!!! Hydrochloric acid vapor is nasty stuff.

You do not want 1.5mm copper. Rule of thumb is that copper and cast iron should weight about the same for the same capacity vessel for best results. This is true no matter what heating system you have other than induction, since induction will NOT work unless you have magnetic steel attached to the bottom. Thin copper is better than thin aluminum or plain stainless, but you are not getting the full benefit. 2mm is much better, and 2.5mm is about optimum. 3mm won't hurt anything but your back -- you will NOT be flipping anything in a 3mm saute pan.

For used stuff, stay with cast iron handles, three rivets per handle, and heavy and you will be fine. Baumalu makes quite a bit of nice 2mm copper -- I have some I bought new -- so you should not overlook them.

If you have a radiant heat electric stove don't polish the bottom of the pans, let them turn black. I believe there is something on the market that will help you there. Polished pans will reflect the heat back into the element and cause it to turn off, hence the pan will heat very slowly and not get really hot until is tarnishes and darkens. Once it is no longer shiny it will work fine.

You can often get well used copper cookware with the tin badly worn quite inexpensively, so if you can re-tin yourself, it's cheaper than new tri-ply when you find it. You probably won't get a whole set at once, but shop on eBay, they turn up at fairly reasonable prices for the off brand stuff. Lots of places made copper 50 years ago, and a lot of it is collecting dust. You do need to be careful to check the thickness though -- there is a lot of decorative stuff out there much to light to use for cooking.

I love my copper, may get rid of the Tramontina tri-ply I bought first when I finally decided I was done with Mom's Farberware.

Peter
 
Thank you Peter, that is a lot of practical advice (non reflecting bottom is definitely a good one!). I would probably not attempt to re-tin an old pan as I do not have the tools or a garden where I could give it a try.

I would love the get a Mazzetti pan and since they cost arm and leg, I am thinking to pick a smaller pan (some sort of Mauviel) that would serve as 'proof of principle' before I would pay some 400€ for a big one. I am actually toying with the idea of waiting a little longer and make a longer vacation in the spring and pick up the pan personally. That would be great :)

I am interested in Mazzetti not only because the lining is silver, but they simply have the right shape I am after. The second choice would be Falk, but according to Funkola the brushed interior tends to stick, so I am not sure about that.
 
I have mostly tinned copper (different brands, some very old, some modern Mauviel and Baumalu), and the one steel lined pan I have is a 2.5 Mauviel. The steel lining stuck to food very badly until I evened it out out and put a semi-mirror polish on the steel. I would hate to use an actually brushed steel interior. Honestly, I like my old first generation All-Clad Master Chef at least as much as the steel lined Mauviel. The tinned copper is very different, and I love it. I would love to try silver lined, and visiting the Mazzetti shop has been on my list of things to do, for a while.
 
Could you please be a bit more specific - last time I took sandpaper to stainless steel was a disaster (probably too low grit). What type of polishing compound should work? Did you do the polishing by hand, or did you use some powered tool?
 
Matus said:
Could you please be a bit more specific - last time I took sandpaper to stainless steel was a disaster (probably too low grit). What type of polishing compound should work? Did you do the polishing by hand, or did you use some powered tool?
Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I did this, so I can't get super specific. I did everything by hand. I think I started with 800 grit wet/dry, and then followed it with finer grit paper, going in circular motions, following the existing grind marks. I probably used Flitz metal polish, as the last step.
 
There's not really much to see! All I did was smooth it out. I do that with a lot of pans, as thoroughly polishing interiors doesn't seem very popular, these days (comparing new All-Clad to old All-Clad makes this very obvious, for instance).
 
I am more and more considering to get a used pan or sauteuse off eBay and since most of those are tinn clad I would like to ask how to differentiate between 'still usable' and 'not usable without re-tinning'. To my eye most seems to fall in the second category, but I may be wrong here. if you would happen to have some sample images it would be great.

thanks
 
EdipisReks said:
...thoroughly polishing interiors doesn't seem very popular, these days (comparing new All-Clad to old All-Clad makes this very obvious, for instance).
Click to expand...

Can't be nearly as bad as the difference between older Lodge cast iron and current production.:disdain:
 
I have just came across silver lined copper ware with stainless handles from Georg Jensen called Taverna. It's from 60' and 70'. They commit rather high prices thug still less than new stainless clad coper ware. Thickness is 2mm.

Do you guys have any experience with these?
 
Matus said:
I have just came across silver lined copper ware with stainless handles from Georg Jensen called Taverna. It's from 60' and 70'. They commit rather high prices thug still less than new stainless clad coper ware. Thickness is 2mm.

Do you guys have any experience with these?
Click to expand...

They are supposed to be very good.
 
OK, on my search for a copper pan (I seem to be getting fixated on silver lining) I have just "discovered" a copany in Turky http://www.soy.com.tr/ that offers some amazingly looking tin and silver plated copper cookware with wall thickness from 2.0 to 3.0 mm.

Might be of interest to some. Should anyone around here have any sort of experience please share :)
 
Definitely interesting looking pans, and from the Etsy page, it seems that they aren't charging more for the silver lining (at least on the frypan I looked at). Nice find!
 
And they also reply very fast to questions - always a plus in my book. Reading a little more on their webpage one also get (for non pro use) lifelong warranty and free of charge re-tinning or re-silvering. And given that the prices for the smaller items are rather reasonable - I am seriously considering to give them a try and maybe later get a large pan if I like using the product.

But I have also came across one very nice frying pan from Cohr that is in excellent shape for a reasonable price. So many options suddenly :)
 
I forgot to add - on their webpage SoyTurkie mention both iron and bronze handles, but I was told that their irony handles were discontinued 2 years ago. But at the same time (I expressed my concerns about the bronze heating up too fast) I was told that their handles have some particular design that should keep the heating up better than other bronze handles. Of course - without actually using such a handle that remains just a statement from the sales person, but if true it would be welcome.
 
Matus said:
Hi,

our Greenpan (28cm, 8cm tall) seems to be approaching its end and I am looking to replace it with a different one. The surface on the Greenpan (some sort of ceramics) held up reasonably long, but its anti-sticking properties diminished quite a bit. On top of that the pan takes ages to heat up on our glass stove (not inductive).

After I have heard about the copper pans I became interested about them. It just seems that there are different types and quite a few makers and I am getting a bit lost. I have started to first look at Mauviel, but obviously there are quite a few others.

For the start - what is the difference between stainless clad copper (like Mauviel Herigtage) and tinn clad one (like Mauviel Tradition)? And what about the pans with silver surface (like Mazzetti)?

I am opened to your advices and suggestions.

thanks
Click to expand...

If you're looking to replace that sorta-kinda-not-really-nonstick-anymore ceramic pan, and want copper, you should look at Anolon Nouvelle Copper which has copper and aluminum AND anodized aluminum and Teflon for super performance.
 
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