"Thinning behind the edge"?

Shop Knives and stones on ebay
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
mano said:
Couldn't care less either way. I know I'm full of sh1t

Biggest beef ribs I ever had were in Oklahoma. The size of my forearm.
Click to expand...

Fiber would take care of that problem. Also where in Oklahoma were these beef ribs? I'm curious/hungry!
 
JohnnyChance said:
Frankly I am embarrassed by the statements by most of the pros in this thread. A properly maintained knife cuts better than one that doesn't, regardless if it is maintained by a pro, a home user, Dave or Jon. And you don't have to cut 1000 pounds of product a week to evaluate proper geometry. Yes, we use our knives a lot, much more than someone could even begin to use them at home. So they get sharpened more. And we require they to perform well. So why aren't we the champions of thinning? This entire argument is backwards. It is the home user who should be saying "ehh, you thin too much", because they don't sharpen that often! The more you sharpen the more you are required to spend time maintaining the proper geometry. We sharpen a lot so whether you like it or not, our knives get thicker, faster.

No one is suggesting you spend an hour every night on a 400 grit stone thinning your knife. Maintain your edge how you like, high grit stone, strop, diamond plate, rod, etc and you should get a couple weeks (or more) out of it. Then, when you do have to go back to the stones, spend 5 extra minutes on low-ish grit stone (I usually use a 1200) and maintain it. I know we work a lot, but I have time for 5 minutes every 2 weeks. I don't refinish and my regular sharpening only takes 5 minutes as it is. Especially with a thin, properly maintained edge. And then guess what, the edges last longer, they cut better when they are duller, the come back easier on my diamond plate and then ending up extending my time between sharpenings. If you generally use lasers, then thinning is not as critical. The knife is very thin for the majority of the blade. It's performance will still begin to suffer after a few sharpenings, but it will be less noticeable. And you can put off thinning it longer because when you do, there isn't a lot of metal to remove. But a Kato? Or Gengetsu? Heiji? Unless you thin as you go, every time you sharpen, you WILL have to spend an hour on it at some point. I think I would rather spend an extra 5-10 minutes every time I bring it back to the stones.

Is Edipis an a-hole? Yes. Is he right? Yes. Am I an a-hole? Yes, and I bet most of you are too in your kitchens. And like me I bet you spend a lot of your time busting the chops of those you work with. He's busting your chops. Feel free to dig in and defend your ground, but at the end of the day, he is right about pretty much everything he has said on sharpening & thinning in this thread. He might have been wrong to question your ability to determine when a knife needs thinning or how to properly maintain it, but frankly I don't blame him. This is the internet, unless you have handled someones work personally, there is really no way to know if their work backs up their talk. Doesn't matter how many hundreds of pounds of carrots you have cut.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I agree with pretty much most of this, my only point through all of this is as a pro, our knives do get abused, and high frequency of sharpening will shorten their lives. As a large investment I choose to baby them as much as possible, that's it. I simply questioned if biweekly sharpening and thinning was excessive. Simple as that.
 
For me it comes down to everybody that sharpens needs to know how to thin because at some point it has to be done. At that point you can decide how much and how often you want to thin and phuck what anyone else thinks about it. Ooopps, I think I just broke a rule!:D
 
it seems like a few of us here may have different expectations about how long our knives should last. while a lifetime of use would be nice, maintaining geometry would be of more importance-whether that means the knife last 7-8 years or 20+ years. ive never tried to maintain an edge at work by simply stropping, i guess i should. speaking as a pro chef, i can say i wear out my edges pretty quickly only to sharpen them again, and again, each week. but im happy with my techinque, i would probably be a little offended if somebody told me what i was doing was "wrong". afterall, the way i sharpen suits my needs. to each their own.
 
:sarcasmalert:

Salty dog said:
P.S. This morning I processed a case of beef back ribs. Perhaps a discussion of the pros and cons of a meat band saw at home or at work?
Click to expand...

Today I cut a slice of bread, a couple slices of cheese, cleaned up a pork tenderloin, and will chop up a couple zucchinis, an onion, a carrot, and a handful of mushrooms. A meat band saw is obviously overkill for EVERYONE. NO ONE should be allowed to use one. I AM RIGHT!!!!!! And anyone who disagrees with me is an IDJIT. Especially if they have a different level of education, work in a professional kitchen, are a home cook, are a different gender, different political bent, or the wind is out of the east or south.


Anyone for popcorn?
 
Lucretia said:
:sarcasmalert:



Today I cut a slice of bread, a couple slices of cheese, cleaned up a pork tenderloin, and will chop up a couple zucchinis, an onion, a carrot, and a handful of mushrooms. A meat band saw is obviously overkill for EVERYONE. NO ONE should be allowed to use one. I AM RIGHT!!!!!! And anyone who disagrees with me is an IDJIT. Especially if they have a different level of education, work in a professional kitchen, are a home cook, are a different gender, different political bent, or the wind is out of the east or south.


Anyone for popcorn?
Click to expand...

If its not Orville Redenbacher then no thank you!
 
labor of love said:
afterall, the way i sharpen suits my needs. to each their own.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. The way I sharpen is pretty far from perfect and not exactly the way most people would do it, but it works, so I don't give a damn if I'm maintaining the geometry and all that to be honest. Different strokes for different folks. So someone may look at my knives and say I'm doing it wrong, which in itself would be wrong, knives are tools for certain tasks and if it fits the tasks I give it, how can it be wrong? I have an MSc and I'm a pro chef. Does that make me smart?
 
Lucretia said:
:sarcasmalert:



Today I cut a slice of bread, a couple slices of cheese, cleaned up a pork tenderloin, and will chop up a couple zucchinis, an onion, a carrot, and a handful of mushrooms. A meat band saw is obviously overkill for EVERYONE. NO ONE should be allowed to use one. I AM RIGHT!!!!!! And anyone who disagrees with me is an IDJIT. Especially if they have a different level of education, work in a professional kitchen, are a home cook, are a different gender, different political bent, or the wind is out of the east or south.


Anyone for popcorn?
Click to expand...

As long as it has real butter, thank you!
 
Lucretia said:
Anyone for popcorn?
Click to expand...

I started to post this earlier and decided against it...maybe now is the time..

9680995828_d1da7193fb.jpg
 
EdipisReks said:
so do lots of professional cooks, and most of those professional cooks probably have crappy, poorly maintained knives. so, once again, this means nothing.
Click to expand...

I agree, however, I am not one of those pro cooks as you well know. So in this regard, again, it means something. At this point it's pretty clear you're just trolling now.
 
Maybe just stirring the pot but here goes.
My last chef was a complete and total bad ass in the kitchen, with a strong reputation around NYCs top kitchen's to boot.
Strangely, he had great knife skills, but could not sharpen or maintain a knife for ****. He came up in a time before J-Knives and whetstones were popular. He openly admitted to me as one of his cooks that he sucked at sharpening, as his ego wasn't invested in it.
So being a bad ass chef for two decades likely means great knife skills, not necessarily sharpening technique.
 
Sort of supports the point that I have been trying to make all a long. Are not these the type of people that we should "assist" in getting on the right path??? I don't feel as though anyone with a lack of knowledge and the willingness to learn should come on this board and be bullied, humiliated and bashed for something that they are trying to get better at. I don't think it's right for some swollen up turd (whom has never worked in the industry) to be such a condasending jerk. I have been in the business for over thirty five years and HATE seeing our "future" trashed, because of a lack of sharing our very valuable knowledge. Just my humble opinion.
 
I have worked with 3 types of cooks. One that didn't even bother to worry about what was in his hand, and would take forever with whatever he was doing because he was going to "make it work".

another is the cook that would take time to steel his knife, but when it went dull would try to "make it work". At times this guy will just grab another knife hoping it will at least cut. The "make it work" guy doesn't think much about anything other than what he has been shown. Doesn't want to do more than what will get him out the door.

The next cook would be the one that never uses a knife for anything other than to open a box. Like most people at home.(If your reading this you prob. don't fit here) Just doesn't care.

The third one wants to know how stuff works and how to make it better. Usually the knives are at least looked after, if they own any. If they don't own any they go looking for something to make them sharp. Like anything else they find that there isn't enough time to learn everything out there.

I have seen people in all 3 categories that can sharpen knives. Being learned some time before. How good they can sharpen is something all together. Many times what people think is sharp isn't there at all.

If you are reading this thread you are prob. in the 3rd category, wondering how much time it will take to learn this. I know I have tested/tried knives that needed some help with thinning, and also have tried quite a few that were over thinned to a point the original grind was pretty much removed for the equation. When I first read the title of this thread I thought all the thinned knives that would chip because they were to thin.

At this point in time I forgot what my original thought was and how I was gonna make it. (I type slow) But it doesn't matter if you are home cook or a pro. your attention to detail will put you into either of these 3 cooks. Getting to know how to sharpen, is about learning the fundamentals, and getting the feel of them. I have had easier time making hollandaise sauce than learning some angles of knives. Add thinning to the mix can be even tougher.

I have seen bad knives by both pro and home cooks. Most are usually in the second category I listed, but they are also usually afraid of them too. When I tell them about my knives I get a scoffing look, then I have them cut with them its a totally new world. Most knives I see that are used need to be thinned, but usually never to make it very thin.
 
Another thing to consider, different geometries for different uses. a touring bicycle and a track bicycle have radically different frame geometries, which create a completely different type of ride, appropriate for the intended use. so there's not necessarily one right way, one ideal knife geometry.
 
TheDispossessed said:
Another thing to consider, different geometries for different uses. a touring bicycle and a track bicycle have radically different frame geometries, which create a completely different type of ride, appropriate for the intended use. so there's not necessarily one right way, one ideal knife geometry.
Click to expand...

+1. thinner is definitely not always better. but were primarily talking about maintaining the geometry of a knife. geometry preferences is something i keep in mind when purchasing a knife more often than not.
 
when i first started with jknives, my sharpening skills were horrible but i could still get a sharp edge. well as sharp as the edge might have been, my knives still didn't cut very well until i eventually started thinning and altering the geometry not understanding what i was really doing or why it worked. basically got the 'ah ha' moment by sheer luck/accident trial & error. i now have my own technique and pretty much sharpen every knife the same and get consistent results regardless of the blades original geometry. they each cut slightly different but the performance is at a level where i am comfortable with.

i don't rotate out different gyutos for different tasks, i just randomly choose one for what ever one i feel like using. the one gyuto i consider my best performing one, i only use for mass prep work as it's really too big for most things.
 
NO ChoP! said:
This is my reason for owning numerous gyutos. Different knives for different tasks.
Click to expand...

Not only numerous gyuto's,Diff. blades entirely in my experience.Yanagi's for banquet platters of sashimi & sushi topping to bone cleavers for ginger chix.Always kept a thin carbon lazor for certain tasks.Various gyuto & cleavers.

I feel very fortunate to have learned a sharpening tech. that has served me well for almost 30 years.Most of the Pro's here are ahead of the curve wt. sharpening & have diff. tech that work for them, it is so important to have a sharp well performing knife.

Now I enjoy teaching cooks in the field & culinary students because I know it will really pay off down the line for them.I will continue on this forum to push freehand to beginners because I feel the more out there the better & its the best way to sharpen.

Just reading threads I know there are some excellent sharpeners here.From straight razors to Japanese single bevel.I would not even begin to get into a pissing battle on tech.:knife:
 
Nothing earth shattering in the video, but the comment about chef's with $400 knives is interesting.

[video=youtube;mtAU51AEzho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtAU51AEzho[/video]

Jay
 
jaybett said:
Nothing earth shattering in the video, but the comment about chef's with $400 knives is interesting.

[video=youtube;mtAU51AEzho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtAU51AEzho[/video]

Jay
Click to expand...

That video was actually insulting to me........sure I'd rather have anything sharp over anything dull, but that isn't really a comparison. Silly clown.......
 
And that looked like an early model j knife. Grandfather to the Mac. Thin as heck, decent moly steel, probably hardened to about 58.....
 
such a stoopid video. Refile this in the knucklehedz thread.
 
jaybett said:
Nothing earth shattering in the video, but the comment about chef's with $400 knives is interesting.

[video=youtube;mtAU51AEzho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtAU51AEzho[/video]

Jay
Click to expand...

What about if you sharpen your $1000 knife and not keep it dull genius?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top