Toyama vs Watanabe

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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[I was wondering if anyone else could weigh in on comparing the performance of Toyama vs Watanabe? I have a Toyama gyuto and was considering trying a Watanabe gyuto but I've heard twice on this site now that the Toyama has better food release despite being a bit thinner... which has scared me away from Watanabe.

Does anyone else have experience with both?]
 
Don't have both, but the food release on the Watanabe is excellent. Mine is a standard kasumi 240...
 
The W's thicker, yes, but they have the same grind. They're like brothers, basically
 
I'll be giving my toyama it's maiden voyage today. I'll let you know how it compares to my former Watanabe.
 
Dardeau said:
I'll be giving my toyama it's maiden voyage today. I'll let you know how it compares to my former Watanabe.
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If I remember, you liked the W very much. Is the T a 240 gyuto? Enjoy
 
i know this is an older thread but thought it might be worth mentioning that the 240 watanabe gyuto i received in the mail last week bares the same spine dimensions as the toyama dimensions on jns. I actually purchased the knife hoping for a thicker knife similar to my old 270 watanabe and was slightly disappointed as i honestly would have just saved 70 bucks ordering a toyama to begin with. knife still kicks arse but money is money...
 
What's the cladding on the Toyama blue steel gyuto?
 
I'm really happy with the wat I currently own but I'm starting to think Toyama is a better deal. Unless someone can convince me watanabe has a superior grind or something.
 
Asteger said:
The Toyama, at least the one I have, will probably be more in the sweet spot for most people, between a wafer-thin laser (hate that term) and a, I dunno, Wustoff or something - a hefty workhorse. The Watanabe leans toward the horse side, and the Toyama feels light to me but I think really would be in the middle for most people. If it helps, I sold a Shigefusa kasumi because it was just a little too insubstantial for me, and the Toyama just has enough and a nice balance.

That's just now. In a couple months I could well be pulling out chukabocho again and shelving the Toyama or Watanabe because they feel like puny petties in comparison. :dontknow:
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ger, since you brought up the weight comparison between the Toyama and Watanabe and also the Shig - how do they compare? Also do these knives share any of the Kato characteristics?
 
I can't tell a difference between the 2. Both the W and Toy could be interchangeable.
 
it is a master/apprentice relationship so I guess the apple doesnt fall far from the tree
 
The Watanabe gyuto I have experience with had a kurouchi finish and from what I can imply a less subtle grind than the polished version. They have a lot in common, and I didn't keep the Toyama long enough to judge the way the steel performed. I wish I could give a better comparison.
 
Dardeau said:
The Watanabe gyuto I have experience with had a kurouchi finish and from what I can imply a less subtle grind than the polished version. They have a lot in common, and I didn't keep the Toyama long enough to judge the way the steel performed. I wish I could give a better comparison.
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If I may ask, what made you pass them on?
 
In both cases fund raising for a mioroshi and a tendency to keep my kit small. For the first year and some the restaurant was open I spent about half of my work day butchering and slicing fish. I still do a decent amount of it, but not what I was doing. I don't want to leave out on my tray (or even carry to work all the time) a 300mm yanagiba and a 210mm deba so I decided I wanted to experiment with a 270mm mioroshi.

I sold the Watanabe to fund my first mioroshi, mostly because of a frustrating incident where I tried to portion a ribeye roll with it and it felt really awkward because of the height and profile. The KU Watanabe I had was really tall, like borderline 60mm from eyeballing it. I described it a few times as a chukabocho with a tip. I try to have everything in my kit be pretty versatile and was also kind of going through a revolving door gyuto phase.

I have been using the Uraku mioroshi for a while now and got pretty used to how it functions. I got the Toyama through a trade, mostly to try it out and was intending on keeping it until opportunity knocked in the form of an affordable Shigefusa mioroshi. Rare as hen's teeth. After that I have a custom coming through sooner than later that will maybe replace my KS. Once I get that straightened out I will probably contact Sin about hooking it up with a little shorter 270mm probably kurouchi because I really liked how that knife was ground and that the finish was really stable.
 
Dardeau said:
I will probably contact Sin about hooking it up with a little shorter 270mm probably kurouchi because I really liked how that knife was ground and that the finish was really stable.
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I absolutely love my Watanabe, but one of the first things I did with it was to refinish the cladding. Believe the kurouchi is probably the best call, though you mention the grind to be slightly different?
 
im actually very curious about the 270 mioroshi now having never used one before. what else do you use it for outside of fish? do you find it particularly robust and versatile? the profile seems pretty suitable for slicing tasks
 
I don't use it for anything outside of fish. It wouldn't be very good at anything else. It is a compromise between a yanagiba and a deba, and is suited to those tasks: filleting, portioning, and slicing raw fish.

The edge wouldn't stand up well to crust on cooked meats.
 
Hopefully something similar to a KS but a little stiffer and with some actual edge retention.
 
chinacats said:
I absolutely love my Watanabe, but one of the first things I did with it was to refinish the cladding.
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Could you give some details on what you did on the cladding and with what result, please?
 
jacko9 said:
JNS has a 20% off sale on Toyama right now for those of you sitting on the fence ;-)
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Is there a code because prices look the same as two days ago 2000DKR without tax for a 240mm gyuto?
 
While this thread is about comparing the Toyama vs the Watanabe - and since these two makers produce very similar products can anybody tell me how either of these gyuto's compare to the same size Shig or Kato?

The 240 Toyama Damascus is available at 20% off is that a good value compared to the Shig or Kato Kasumi knife at the same price point?

Any and all help is appreciated,

Jack
 
These are incredible value. It's been noted by other forum users that at full price these are undervalued. Thanks for the heads up guys. That was a cool moment.
 
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