Upcomming Sigma II Stones Pass-Around

Shop Knives and stones on ebay
Advertise with us
Find deals on amazon
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I didn't get to the 'slow' part - flattening and very little time on the stone (Sigma II 1K) ended it for me. I can barely tolerate sound my Bester 500 makes when flattening it, but until I find a better substitute for it, I am stuck with it. I am too interested in a new coarser stone.

M
 
Rottman said:
Dave, there's a 120 grit black stone from Sigma that dishes very very little. It's also available in oversize 205x75x50mm. I think KCMA reviewed it on FF a while back. Flattening it with the enclosed loose SiC 36 grit on a glass plate is a sound devised in hell....
Click to expand...

Oh I like that description! I'm going to use that in the care and feeding video this stone needs.

Anyway yeah, there's the #120. An absolute monster of a thing, and a bit of a problem child as well. Folks who know stones get along with it well. New folks, not so much. The Select II #240 isn't bad, but it does dish. I want that stone with a stronger binder, but won't get it because...

There is the Sigma #400. I'll make this real simple for you. Cuts like a GS #500, stays flat like a King #300, will not clog (unless you push it waaay too far) and it's splash and go and engineered to be like that. You will probably want this one, so where do I need to send it? Should probably have thrown it in with this pass-around, but I only had a prototype then, no production stones.

The Sigma 3F Carbon #700 is also not bad. It does dish a little, but it's not uncontrollable and will cut through anything you got. Name your steel, it'll chew it up real nice. Needs a little mud before it really starts working hard, then tends to cut without dishing uncontrollably.

And that's about it. There's also a #600 they have, if you have a spare couple of Franklins. I'm going to see if they'll slip me one gratis for testing and yes, I do like my chances on that one. :)

Johnny, the full line up is;

240, 400, 1000, 1200, 3000, 6000, 10000, 13000, 1000/6000 and 1200/13000.

The 400, 1200 and 13000 are not sintered SiC.

The 400 is white alundum, but something different from normal. Not a pretty stone, but the description of what it's like is above. Hooks into hard HSS as well as an Atoma #400.

The 1200 is one I've only seen in pictures. Still waiting on that one. Apparently it creates 'ink' and they're playing with a new form of alundum. Sounds promising, and if it's dish resistant, should be an animal.

The 13000 is the same as it always was, with a new purple label.

Sigma call these stones "Select II" in order to maintain a brand name in the international market that's already got a foothold. I stupidly said "ok" to sticking the new label on the 13000, and hey presto, it pops up a month later in Germany. Oh well.

The combo stones are new, but nothing different.

And that's it.

Now I've been going at it for 16 hours straight here, only stopping to say "happy new year" so I think I'll hit the hay.

Happy new year all, goodnight!

Stu.
 
maxim said:
I have sigma II 1 k honestly i dont like it at all, so i andet to give it out to one of my studens at work :(
Sound is like Marko describe very annoying and very slow too.
Click to expand...

I don't know that it's 'slow' as much as it's 'stupid'.

In my own testing, it's the fastest #1000 stone on the planet. Nothing else comes close, but the sound and dishing is the same regardless of the steel on it.

20 strokes on CPM 10V @ HRC 64 or 20 strokes on damascus backed white steel, same amount of dishing.

But you also need to put in the first 10 strokes to get the thing to start working too. Before that, it's pretty lifeless. Once it gets a little mud up, then it starts working and working very hard.

Even so, it's not a favourite of mine but some folks love the thing. If there was a little binder in it, I think it'd be a much nicer, better stone for the 'normal' steels, but it would give up some of the speed it has on the really tough stuff.

I'm not even going to ask you to give it a second chance. I know that when I get a stone that's just 'blech' then it's really difficult to come to terms with it, even if it should be good.

Stu.
 
I chamfered the edges of the #120 with a 60 grit lapping stone I had around, it's pretty obvious who won:
DSC00065.jpg
 
I had it for 4 month in pro kitchen so i gave it enough time. :)

Schtoo said:
I don't know that it's 'slow' as much as it's 'stupid'.

In my own testing, it's the fastest #1000 stone on the planet. Nothing else comes close, but the sound and dishing is the same regardless of the steel on it.

20 strokes on CPM 10V @ HRC 64 or 20 strokes on damascus backed white steel, same amount of dishing.

But you also need to put in the first 10 strokes to get the thing to start working too. Before that, it's pretty lifeless. Once it gets a little mud up, then it starts working and working very hard.

Even so, it's not a favourite of mine but some folks love the thing. If there was a little binder in it, I think it'd be a much nicer, better stone for the 'normal' steels, but it would give up some of the speed it has on the really tough stuff.

I'm not even going to ask you to give it a second chance. I know that when I get a stone that's just 'blech' then it's really difficult to come to terms with it, even if it should be good.

Stu.
Click to expand...
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
Stu, how does 400 sound while flattening compared to 1K?

M
Click to expand...

What does the #400 sound like when it's flattening an Atoma?

It's not easy, the stone is very hard, but will flatten with a diamond plate. Quite smooth all things considered and nothing like the gravelly sound/feel from the Select II 1K. But the #400 doesn't dish much. A real hard workout only needs about 10 passes with an Atoma #400 to flatten out again.

If you've ever worked with a Shapton GS #500, it's very similar to that except it stays flatter, resists clogging better and is 5 times thicker. Works just a little slower than the GS though, that's the trade off. The Chosera #400 I also have doesn't even compare. The Cho dishes more, cuts MUCH slower and clogs more quickly, although it's easier to flatten than the Sigma but the Cho does need soaking.

I'm trying very hard to put this into the right terms here, but really, there's no other stone like it I've ever heard of. It's the only stone I've ever used where I covered my mouth and laughed, so surprised, shocked and elated at how well it works, and you probably have some idea of how many stones I've got around here.

(it's less than 100. I think... I could be wrong and have crossed that number...)

Maxim, I don't doubt you gave it a fair hearing, nor that you didn't like it.

(I also suspect the SII 1K is why they've worked on the #1200. We shall see what it's like...)

Stu.
 
I have used quite a few stones. I currently use beston 500, bester 1200, rika 5k, and Geshin 8k. Some of these stones I may swap out for other stones when they are used up but overall they exemplify the types of stones that I have a preference for. Mainly softer stones with the focus on feedback and that leave a bit more toothy/rough finish for its grit range. The only stone I am not a huge fan of is the beston 500, which is a very good coarse stone, but it is the only one I would buy a replacement for before its time is spent. So on to the sigma series…

1,000-
I did not have as much of an issue with this stone as Marko did. I agree that it did not make a “pleasant” sound but I did not have an issue with it. The stone is harder then what I usually use. Not as hard as either the shapton pros or glass series (I am not a fan of these for kitchen knives) but certainly on the harder end of the spectrum. The stone grinds at a very good rate. It does not work much mud at all and does not load up. The finished edge was very clean and on the more refined side for a stone in a similar grit range.

3,000-
First off depending on the stone lineup you have I do not see the need to have both the 1000 and 3000. If have a lower grit stone for slight changes to the bevel or in case you really need to remove metal you could easily make the jump to the 3k because it grinds rather quickly yet leaves a nice edge. It will also work well for normal maintenance. It is in line with the 1k stone, hard, grinds fast, does not get muddy, and does not load. The final edge is again a bit more polished then stones in a similar grit range. But the edge does have nice bite and cuts well. I can imagine some professionals here that like coarser edges liking the edge produced.

6,000-
The 6k acts in a similar manner as the other stones do. This one builds a little bit of mud and will just slightly load up after some work, but it does not load up anywhere near as much as most polishing stones I have used. I would say it feels somewhere between the takenenko and the shapton pro series in similar grit range. Leaves a near mirror polish and a nice edge. It is a finer cutting edge then the rika and takenenko but toothier then say a shapton, kitayama, or king.

10,000
This stone is probably my favorite of the line-up as well as the 3k. Again it cut and feels in a similar manner as the other stones. Leaves a very polished edge but still cuts with some toothy-ness, not as much bite as I like but a very good edge all in all. Works a touch more mud but still very little even with heavy pressure. It loads a little bit more then the 6k but not to the point where I need to clean off the stone.

The biggest thing I liked about all the stones is how little they dish or would require flattening. They cut fast and leave very good edges. I happen to have a preference for softer stones with better feedback. I just personally feel I have more of a connection with them. I also like edges that are slightly less refined. I will say if I sharpened a lot of knives or did it for more for a professional means I would heavily consider these stones. The edges look great, perform extremely well at all grit levels and the stone is going to stay flat for a long time without needing to be lapped.
 
Mattrud, nice review, can you tell me a bit about the feel and hardness of the 10K?. I have the 13K and love the way it cuts. Its hard as in resistant to dishing but does have a chalky fragile feel, especially when soaked its sooo easy to slice into it a little. I've come to the conclusion I prefer a harder stone with good feedback the chosera 5k feels nice to me, now its broken in for example.
 
the 10k is hard and resistant to dishing as you mentioned for the 13k. It has a firm but smooth feel with a slight amount of give but not what I would consider to be anywhere in the realm of say a gesshin or naniwa super stone as far as creating mud or soft. It is a bit harder then the immanishi and jks 10k, builds up less mud, does not load anywhere near as much as those two and seems less resistant to dishing. Those two have a bit of a chalky yet smooth feel to them where I feel the sigma is more of a clean smooth feeling.
 
That sounds good. I like the 13k, it gives a polish unbelievably quickly for a high grit stone but I'm fining it a bit high maintenance cleaning flatting after every use, not because it dishes but the surface marks very easily. It too loads with swarf but it doesn't seem to stop it cutting.
 
I did not find the sigma 10k to load too much. I have used several other 10k stones that loaded more. I did not see a need to clean off the 10k stone while sharpening.
 
Great review, thanks Matt -

Are the stones still with you, or Nilloc has them?

M
 
My wife just told me the stones came, just in time for the weekend
 
I just finished up with them, got to see who gets them next (I'll check after posting this).
I purposely did not read any reviews on these stones at all, I don't even know what they cost.
1k cuts fast and doesn't dish out but it leaves scratches that are hard to get rid of.

I did not like the 3k. 1st it feels a little sticky and 2nd it didn't pare well with the 1K as it was almost just as fast and easy to skip it and go to the 6K. 3K stones are kind of a picky thing for me, I have yet to find "the right one". In a 3K stone I'm looking for a stone that will, one easily get rid of 1K scratches and two give me a expectable finished edge if I chose to stop with that stone. This stone did neither.

The 6K was the one I liked the best. I don't think I have ever used a 6 before? But I also don't think there is much need for one. That sad it had a good feel and sound to it and left a nice even scratch pattern. As I sad above it cut fast, so fast that the 3k was not really needed.

The 10k was a good stone, nice feel speed ext. ext. The only thing with it was that I felt it was a little soft and come time for a 10K might as well just go for a jnat

End vote is that they are good stones, but I would have no place for them in my lineup. I still have not looked to see what they cost but ill assume they are in the chosera ballpark? I like them more then Chosera's


10K

dc4f10e2.jpg


Back down to aoto then upto okudo


be9691e5.jpg
 
Actually, they are less expensive than Chosera, particularly 10K. Great review, thank you.


M
 
All of these stones are relatively fast cutters on a wide range of steels from carbon to highly wear resistant to stainless. The finish is nice but not super shiny at each grit level. They also seem to be on the hard end of the spectrum. I thought the feedback was decent at each grit range. The one I really didn't like was the 1k stone gouges pretty easily and drinks water like a 500 grit. As I was sharpening on the freshly flattened stones, I could feel the texture changing as the knife gouged into the stone here and there. That wasn't a good feeling and I felt I couldn't sharpen several knives in a row without flattening again. In contrast, I can sharpen quite a few knives without the need for flattening on a Chosera, Gesshin 1k, Bester 1.2k. I think I'd even prefere a 1k superstone which is my least favorite of that series. At some point, I might have to get one of the higher grit stones. If I bought one, it would be either the 3k or 6k.
 
I guess I'm up next....if the stars align just right the Dragon Slayers could see them. If not me then Eamon will have them both at the same time. That would be a really cool passaround, NO???? Stones married to a blade!
 
I'm going to let them dry out for a while. I will try to send them on Monday, unless that's a holiday. If that's the case, then Tuesday.
 
tk59 said:
All of these stones are relatively fast cutters on a wide range of steels from carbon to highly wear resistant to stainless. The finish is nice but not super shiny at each grit level. They also seem to be on the hard end of the spectrum. I thought the feedback was decent at each grit range. The one I really didn't like was the 1k stone gouges pretty easily and drinks water like a 500 grit. As I was sharpening on the freshly flattened stones, I could feel the texture changing as the knife gouged into the stone here and there. That wasn't a good feeling and I felt I couldn't sharpen several knives in a row without flattening again. In contrast, I can sharpen quite a few knives without the need for flattening on a Chosera, Gesshin 1k, Bester 1.2k. I think I'd even prefere a 1k superstone which is my least favorite of that series. At some point, I might have to get one of the higher grit stones. If I bought one, it would be either the 3k or 6k.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that, and I let Mr. Sigma Power know that these were my own thoughts (specifically the 1K) as he handed me the new Select II #1200 today.

The #1200 is nothing like the #1000. In fact, there's no stone in this grit range I've ever heard of that's like the #1200. Still working it out, but for now, I can tell you it's NOT a 1K stone...

It's umm, I can't really say just yet. Not enough time with it and I'm still working it out.

Very interesting and very promising.

Stu.
 
So we have 3 people on the list on the West Coast who would l like to try these stones.

Johndoughy (TX)
PabloZ (NM)
SpikeC (OR)

You guys will have to work out logistics among yourselves.

If anybody else would like to try these stones, please post in this thread. You don't have to be on the West coast.

M
 
Oops. I just assumed PabloZ was next. Where should I send these off to? I guess it makes more sense to send them to SpikeC then PabloZ then Eamon. Plus, SpikeC posted in the thread first. If you guys want to switch places, let me know. Otherwise, I will plan on sending them to SpikeC.
 
I just realized my post reads like I had major gouging issues with all of the stones. Really, it was the 1k that was pretty bad, in that regard.
 
It would make sense to send these stones to whoever is closer. They move at a good pace, so you guys should get them soon, even if we change the order slightly. So, tk, send it to Spike.

M
 
If it's ok with everyone, Spike can send the stones to Eamon and I'll send Eamon the Dragon Slayers at the same time that way he can have another Christmas party. Then Eamon can send the stones to me and I'll get em back to Marko and the D/Srs can go next on the list. Will that work for everyone?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top