What Is Your Go-To Coarse Stone For Heavy Lifting?

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Says they’re the only ones using a ceramic bond

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Very confusing indeed. Nevertheless if it is indeed the FSK (same one as BBB) super vitrified 400 then it's quite promising if they have stock.
 
blokey said:
Those are good, hope you like them. If anyone has the Triple B they can compare to it would be great. They are pretty close in price so I assumed they would be the same
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I had thought they were the exact same stones as the BBB super vitrified? Or are they just simmilar?
 
Chasingsharpness said:
I had thought they were the exact same stones as the BBB super vitrified? Or are they just simmilar?
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As far as I can tell from online sources, they are the same stones. And it looks like Miura may have some of the last produced 400 grit in stock? It really does look like FSK no longer makes them in 400
 
harken said:
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Not sure about the BBB stones, but this package quality is top notch. The stone feels great and it comes with a flattening / refresh stone. (Also MIURA was amazing to deal with over email)
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I’ve been working some K390 on it and it’s a blast, Shapton 500 can’t do anything, FSK can get a burr in couple strokes and feels a lot better than Venev, seriously consider the 1000 now
 
harken said:
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous! I just tested it out on a Spare with a chip (apex) and wow. It took almost no pressure and a couple passes to form a burr. Also tempted to get the higher grits 😂💸
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Nice, any idea how fast is it compared to a shapton 220 or even an atoma 140? Thinking of getting either this, or a venev 120 to do the heavy lifting.
 
I don’t use either of those stones so I can’t make a direct comparison, but it’s certainly faster than my nanohone 200 (non diamond). Venev is certainly much cheaper, but might be difficult to keep cutting quickly and have an inconsistent scratch pattern. I think the benefit of these FSK stones or BBB super vitrified stones is that they are super hard with almost no ware, very fast, and have a very even scratch pattern.

I think if you have the cash, it’s totally worth the purchase (I have a little sharpening gig, so I’ll be using it a ton). Best course stone I’ve ever used.
 
Taking some quick measurements, my BBB 400 after a year of use is 23.28mm tall at the ends of the stone and 22.98mm tall at the stone edge in the middle of the stone. Measured with mitutoyo calipers. I can't measure the dishing in the very middle of the stone with my mess-around with calipers. I'd need to get my micrometer... Not sure if I'd want to, since the diamond can scratch the faces. Almost every knife I've sold has seen use from the stone... Maybe 80 hrs of work so far? Idk. There is dishing in the stone, I can see and feel it. Things rock on the surface now. Anyway there's that for wear
 
I did another measurement, using plastic food wrap from Costco. I used one layer to wrap the top of the stone, and one to wrap the bottom and then used a micrometer. I measured the cling wrap double-layer and it was 0.02-0.03mm thick. The micrometer I had didn't get all the way to the stone center, more of the 1/3 mark from the long side (so like if the stone is 200mm long, the middle of that side is where I measured from). I got 22.97mm with the plastic wrap, and subtract that and I get 22.94mm at thinnest. This is sub mm of course and yeah the stone is definitely slow to dish, and I use some coarse grit nagura included and from the JKI resin diamond stone while thinning too.

Hopefully this answers the how slow do BBB / fsk 400 grit stones dish question. They doooo actually dish. I haven't flattened back mine yet, and I don't know if they were perfectly level to begin with either, since I didn't measure. It seemed really level though

Otherwise, the old gen cerax 320 were my go to and were faster for me, especially honyaki. I got a newer cerax 320 that dishes slower but cuts slower than the old ones
 
refcast said:
I did another measurement, using plastic food wrap from Costco. I used one layer to wrap the top of the stone, and one to wrap the bottom and then used a micrometer. I measured the cling wrap double-layer and it was 0.02-0.03mm thick. The micrometer I had didn't get all the way to the stone center, more of the 1/3 mark from the long side (so like if the stone is 200mm long, the middle of that side is where I measured from). I got 22.97mm with the plastic wrap, and subtract that and I get 22.94mm at thinnest. This is sub mm of course and yeah the stone is definitely slow to dish, and I use some coarse grit nagura included and from the JKI resin diamond stone while thinning too.

Hopefully this answers the how slow do BBB / fsk 400 grit stones dish question. They doooo actually dish. I haven't flattened back mine yet, and I don't know if they were perfectly level to begin with either, since I didn't measure. It seemed really level though

Otherwise, the old gen cerax 320 were my go to and were faster for me, especially honyaki. I got a newer cerax 320 that dishes slower but cuts slower than the old ones
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Thanks alot for proving those measurements. It's really useful to get real world data on the wear rate and much appreciated. Can I ask did you use the #400 for thinning, or just setting bevels and edge work?

I measured my FSK #400 for flatness the other day. My calipers are not the highest accuracy but it was showing flat to approx 0.02mm at various points in the stone. It did indeed feel extremely flat out of the box. I've also ordered the 1k, will see how that one is. I think the wear rate on that should be slower if used for edge work?

These are (excellent and) very expensive stones, and even so per mm with only 3mm of abrasive. Nevertheless I expect they will last a very long time. I will be paying attention to trying to wear the stone evenly. I will say having flattened a JKI800 VIT that flattening these expensive and thin stones are is not a pleasant expirence to flatten. The price and even worse the availability makes you feel wasteful when watching the abrasive washing away. Despite my best efforts I felt like I was wasting more abrasive then I needed to. Normally with traditional stones I would have at it with an atoma or lay waste to the surface on the SiC plate. But I think when flattening time comes I will be careful to use a very flat lapping plate, apply correct pressure evenly, and perhaps even using higher grit SiC and take measurements along the way.

Regarding availability, I wanted to ask if anyone knew if the FSK vits were being discontinued? I've heard a few things here and there but I'm not certain. Would feel even worse flattening knowing they are no longer in production.
 
Okok I ordered the fsk400 for thinning. Tired of my sp220 and constantly refreshing to keep it cutting fast. Does it have any issues with soft stainless cladding? I only ask because my jki vit 800 has a tendency to pull soft stainless and then get scratchy for a while
 
I thinned a soft stainless CCK and a little bit on a stainless clad takurama yesterday with the FSK 400. Didn't have any issues. FSK 400 cuts really fast, faster than my Debado 200. Just doesn't load up at all My current go to coarse stone. I do wish they made it a little thicker, then it would be a stone for life.

I also found JKI800 not the best with soft stainless. Still a great stone, but I wouldn't do coarse work with it.
 
For people salivating to get a BBB 400 or FSK 400 -- I've been using one for about a year or two, when my previous coarse stone was a blueish cerax 320 (I tried a recent more pink grey cerax 320, and it's slightly harder and sharper abrasive). The cerax is about 2-3 as fast at the same pressure. If you're ok with the convexing and resurfacing the stone to get the bevels flatter and flatter -- I highly recommend the cerax, especially for bulk thinning. I like the cerax more. Have tried king 300, shapton glass 500, sigma 400, gesshin 400, gesshin 220
 
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refcast said:
For people salivating to get a BBB 400 or FSK 400 -- I've been using one for about a year or two, when my previous coarse stone was a blueish cerax 320 (I tried a recent more pink grey cerax 320, and it's slightly harder and sharper abrasive). The cerax is about 2-3 as fast at the same pressure. If you're ok with the slight convexing and resurfacing the stone to get the bevels flatter and flatter -- I highly recommend the cerax. I like the cerax more. Have tried king 300, shapton glass 500, sigma 400, gesshin 400, gesshin 220
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Interesting, I’d love to try it
 
The fsk 400 is good for setting geometry, and then using a cerax 320 to thin out the rest. The fsk is better at edge sharpening, with the higher pressures for edge sharpening vs thinning. The fsk is excellent at reprofiling and edge work -- probably one of the very best if not the best, aside from maybe a diamond plate for reprofiling. For something like thinning a monosteel knife -- the cerax 320 was better. So, honyaki, stainless steel Ashi -- all better on the cerax. Thinning speed was just so much higher on the cerax and my shoulders don't ache so darn much. I had better control over the geometry because I could apply less pressure with the cerax. I just wouldn't make much progress on the Ashi stainless with the fsk, even with nagura, but when I went to the cerax things moved along fast and actually a happy pace. The fsk can have the surface conditioned to be more aggressive though, but it wears off pretty quickly -- maybe ten minutes. Depends on the iron or steel
 
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