Who Dislikes 'Japanese Knives'?

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

@XooMG german forists appear to think much of Juergen Schanz (famous custom maker, but also having a lot of series knives in the price range of €150-300).

 

[DanHumphrey]

Oh I have to disagree... there are quite a few knifemakers in Europe (UK, Germany, Austria, France, Sweden...) making japanese Style/insprired Knives like Gyutos, Santokus, Pettys... with pretty good grinds and good profiles. Problems are only that

a) They're pretty under represented in international forums (few UK-makers, Dalman, Raquin etc. aside)
b) It's only knifemakers, not mainstream manufacturers like Misono for example

I wish more european companys would lean towards the custom makers and finally start to make good Gyutos etc. with good steels and good grinds etc.
That misses outside Japan I think...

And this is why I was confused, I think; I'd characterize those makers as making Japanese-style knives and they just happen to be in Europe. Others include Dan Prendergast, Blenheim, and Catcheside, if the UK counts as "Europe", which is a question I don't want to get involved in.

 

[Iggy]

@XooMG german forists appear to think much of Juergen Schanz (famous custom maker, but also having a lot of series knives in the price range of €150-300).

Yes.. his knives are quite good as well as stock removal more or less flat ground SB1 Niolox-Blades with western handles go. (have a petty in use since 3-4 years and some steak knives and tested a few of his knives over the years). Solid performers, good heat treat, good F&F, good value, not very good food release...and rather boring looking... but of course only one of many examples.

@ Danhumphrey: And it gets even more confusing if sometimes... the same maker does both.... european and japanese style knives :scratchhead:

We had the discussion in our german knife forum as well over and over again... just recently in the context of the review of a Tsourkan Gyuto... and I tend to think of knifemakers as individuals. Who ever makes a good knives.... I'll buy it... or not. If it's a japanese profile with a german steel or a german profile with a japanese handle or whatever... every variations has its good and bad sides.

I tend to prefer japanese style handles and profiles with european steels but that's just me... and it changes from time to time as well.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

boring looking? I think for european style, his colored and sometimes phosphorescent trimmings are already considered gaudy

I assume that Herder, Burgvogel, Güde and the other German standards, as well as K sabatier, are old news regarding that question?

 

[MAS4T0]

Others include Dan Prendergast, Blenheim, and Catcheside, if the UK counts as "Europe", which is a question I don't want to get involved in.

Of course it does. There's a referendum soon on leaving the EU... but they can't vote to leave the continent!

For some reason, this reminded me of when Galvatron built a huge rocket engine on Cybertron and brought the whole planet to Earth. :wink:

 

[Iggy]

boring looking? I think for european style, his colored and sometimes phosphorescent trimmings are already considered gaudy

Actually I have exactly the green g10 with phosphorescent linern from him
But yes, in some other aspects I find them (good, but) not very exciting (profile, just stainless monosteel, only western handles without bolsters, same satin blade finish...)

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Stainless monosteel at 60+ HRC, no less...

 

[Tobes]

@XooMG german forists appear to think much of Juergen Schanz (famous custom maker, but also having a lot of series knives in the price range of €150-300).

+1 for Juergen Schanz...count me in for the german knife nuts thinking highly about his work

 

[XooMG]

Looking at his production stuff, most everything seems Japanese-style.

 

[chinacats]

+1 for Juergen Schanz...count me in for the german knife nuts thinking highly about his work

Not tried a Schanz but wouldn't trade my Leder for anything.:knife:

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

What makes his chef/petty knives japanese in your eyes? If it is about blade shapes that are more gyuto/japanese petty inspired: these have themselves been derived from old-school sabatier. The harder steel and probably more modern edges? Well Wüsthof (pls don't leave out the "h", it changes pronounciation drastically in german.) have jumped that shark with going 14dps/10dps @59HRC.

Let's give a short rundown of what you will typically find sold in a german cookware store - we're not cutting THAT much of our own dogfood:

-Victorinox
-Kai Wasabi and Shun
-Zwilling/Henckels in various lines, including dubious low-end options and cermax (which technologically is extremely japanese in style ). Their mid end is marketed more to the "just married, need to build household, got money but no time to shop knives, so gimme teh block of teh reputable" crowd...
-sometimes WMF (tend to have their own stores, more dining room than kitchen oriented brand. Word has they don't even suck but are expensive. Advertises on TV implying tomato-drop tests, so must be rather splitty and robust . Massively into the same crowd as mid-end Zwilling )
-Wüsthof, see comment above... often a whole aisle meter with a huge choice of shapes.
-Global and Chroma 301. Ironically, their conventional shapes might be the most sane choice if you want "just a good chef knife, no broomsticks, kanji, corners or boxy shapes, for, you know, cooking a lot with".
-Maybe Güde and/or Herder - but the one Herder product that is really still pretty prevalent in german households is their small carbon parers (the one Mr. Stamp did a youtube review on).
-Nesmuk. Considered alibi high-end.
-Odds and ends, usually made of some variety of 4116 steel...

 

[XooMG]

What makes his chef/petty knives japanese in your eyes? If it is about blade shapes that are more gyuto/japanese petty inspired: these have themselves been derived from old-school sabatier.

Only looking at his online shop, models are identified with Japanese names (petty, santoku, gyuto). Perhaps the custom offerings are more diverse.

 

[Iggy]

Only looking at his online shop, models are identified with Japanese names (petty, santoku, gyuto). Perhaps the custom offerings are more diverse.

Actually most people I know who have a Schanz knife bought it from here:

http://messerkontor.de/produkt-kategorie/kochmesser/messerkontor-exclusiv/juergen-schanz-lucidus/

Jürgen SChanz makes a smallbatch series for this shop called Lucidus.

By the way... if you're looking for a european japanese style custom knife, I'd definately recommend Jannis Scholz (Xerxes Knives). My Santoku I have shown here some weeks ago (SC125 damascus San-Mai... Laser Grind... love it :knife

 

[XooMG]

Actually most people I know who have a Schanz knife bought it from here:

http://messerkontor.de/produkt-kategorie/kochmesser/messerkontor-exclusiv/juergen-schanz-lucidus/

Jürgen SChanz makes a smallbatch series for this shop called Lucidus.

Cheers! There seems to be an interesting variety there, though still mostly Japanese style.

 

[PieMan]

This topic seems too broad, surely a good European knife is much better than a bad Japanese knife, and a good Japanese knife better than a bad European one? Surely it's all just down to preference...

Personally I dislike light Japanese knives (the ones i've tried anyway) but I really really like the big heavy cleavers - Not that light knives are bad or anything, but i'm just used to what i'm used to.

 

[Krassi]

Jesus christ Iggy!
I havent seen your Xerxes Santoku before.. love the handle and flat shape!

+1 for Schanz and Xerxes and also Robin from Sweden

I like anti gravity selffloating japanese Lasers and the very old crap looking Solinger Carbon knifes.. there could not be something more different and i love em all

 

[zetieum]

Well.. I hate that the asymmetric grind knowing that i am left-handed. And they are more or less all asymmetric... I hate the price.
But I am crazy in love with all the rest :bliss:

 

[Benuser]

Well.. I hate that the asymmetric grind knowing that i am left-handed. And they are more or less all asymmetric... I hate the price.
But I am crazy in love with all the rest :bliss:

Most Western knives are asymmetric as well, have at least the right face more convexed than the left one. Japanese will off-centre the edge as well to the left, allowing thinner slices and better food release. Try an inverted Japanese blade, left side convexed, right one flat, edge off-centered to the right.

 

[Chef Doom]

I'm pretty sure most World War II vets will hate Japanese knives off the bat. Especially POWs. Can you really blame them though?