your taste in handles on Japanese knives - a vote?

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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Crothcipt said:
Another thought people customize guns, cars, and anything else under the sun so why not?
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Sure! Nothing wrong with customising knives either - but all depends how you do it. Some handles go too far.

The Edge said:
A part of me also feels like I want as much care put into the handle as the knife itself, and maybe I'm wrong for thinking this, but I just don't get that with regular ho wood handles.
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tk59 said:
I think when most people vote "simple" they aren't necessarily voting for a stock ho wood handle seen on the cheapest knives. H!orn-spacer-ebony is also very simple. Even horn-ebony is very nice sometimes. Horn-something with a nice figure is great, too. I think the odd stuff is the burl-burl-mokume-damascus-(insert busy chunk of something here). Polish isn't busy either. Highly etched damascus is.
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Agreed, tk! Simple can be elegant. Sure ho can seem dull, and I kind of thought that at first. But now as I've seen so many burl handles around it's got a bit much and I prefer simple, even if plain old ho.

Burl Source said:
My take on this question is; Do you like your knives to be bland and the same as everyone else? ...or would you prefer something a bit nicer that reflects your own personal taste?
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Busy and over-done doesn't make it nicer, if that's how it turns out to be, and burl doesn't necessarily reflect everyone's taste. Also, if everyone gets knives and then customises with burl, then it all ends up looking the same too.

SpikeC said:
We need to return to the Pure Japanese esthetic as exemplified by the Mr. Itoh Turquoise Coral handled gyuto!
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Hehe... I was wondering when someone would think of that! I used to have my eye on a pretty flashy Tanaka damascus (micarta turquoise handle) and am glad I didn't get it, as somehow even without owning it I got a bit sick of it.

I'll bet, too, that the Japanese 'turquoise coral handle' numbers tend to be made for export not for the Japanese market. You don't see knives like that in Japan, probably because people don't like 'em. (I've been to around 20 different shops there in the past 2-3 months.) Also there must be few makers with that style. Imagine what the Sakai craftsmen might think!

... Right! New tally now. Looks like the burl camp has made up lots of ground: Simple 9 - Burl 8 - Depends 3

Pretty much even-steven, guys. C'mon you simples: vote! Yes, we do appreciate quieter understated elegance, but now is the time to make our voices heard! :razz:
 
Of course, as someone who makes handles occasionally, I find this very interesting. I just had a discussion like this with one of my favorite providers. He pointed out a beautiful piece of wood to me that was extremely rare and highly sought after by instrument makers for its tonal qualities and subtle beauty. I was not sure whether the subtleness in the figure would translate to knife handles, and whether the uniqueness of the wood (old stock Brazilian rosewood) would really be recognized in the presence of all the more spectacular burls and spalted woods. Actually, this discussion here encourages me to use more of these premium quality but 'plainer' woods, we'll see what the outcome will be... I am thinking of some rosewoods, mahoganies, cherry etc. From the orders I get, I don't think there is a clear trend, but it probably leans more toward the fancier pieces as a contrast to the traditional and often simplistic standrd handles. That said, I have a number of knives in my own knife block that still have nice ho handles with white horn ferrules (even some Caster knives...), and I like them so much in their functional simplicity that I have not replaced them with anything.

Stefan
 
This is an interesting discussion to be sure. I love the diversity of opinions, and think each one is valid. However I'm troubled by the the insistence of either camp that the other is somehow wrong, or not being 'honorable' to the craft. Neither is wrong. To me there is nothing more (simply) delicious that a ripe peach of a warm just-picked summer tomato. Yet I've also been lucky enough to dine at some of the worlds most decorated restaurant, where the plates are intense, intricately composed and....equally beautiful. Two approaches to food...and neither is wrong.

Like Stephan, I have some beautiful premium wood handles, and many knives where I haven't changed the original Ho wood. I love them all.

However...I don't want to be a fence sitter...I vote for Burl from the standpoint that there is nothing wrong with it.
 
Personally, I do like Ebony & Horn and burnt chestnut, but Ho and Ichii are just not appealing to me. I much prefer beautiful wood such as koa, redwood, spalted maple and ironwood. Why not honor a beautiful piece of working art with some additional bling.

Marko's Ironwood, silver spacer and horn are simple and elegant and happen to be one of my favorite handles, yet I tend to think of that as less traditional and somewhat blingy. I also really love the use of blue mammoth teeth as a spacer, so I guess my vote goes with the burl and the bling.
'
BURL :viking:
 
apicius9 said:
... a beautiful piece of wood to me that was extremely rare ... I was not sure whether the subtleness in the figure would translate to knife handles, and whether the uniqueness of the wood (old stock Brazilian rosewood) would really be recognized in the presence of all the more spectacular burls and spalted woods. Actually, this discussion here encourages me to use more of these premium quality but 'plainer' woods, we'll see what the outcome will be... I am thinking of some rosewoods, mahoganies, cherry etc.
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Interesting you worry people might be blinded by flash enough that they'd miss the subtlety of your wood! Probably a lot might, but maybe in time less. With patience and education perhaps. Your 'plainer' ideas sound nice! ...

Maybe people get attracted to styles as a reaction to the plain old hos and what seems boring and commonplace, and so go for contrast. First. I did before. Maybe it's like when some people hit their teens and decide to grow their hair, dress entirely in black, get tatoos, piercings, I dunno, and express themselves and look different (and then attend concerts where everyone looks like them anyway) before later refining their tastes and learning to appreciate the opposite, which is the 'plainer' stuff that they initially decided to go against, while they grow bored of their initial choices.

apicius9 said:
From the orders I get [for handles], I don't think there is a clear trend, but it probably leans more toward the fancier pieces as a contrast to the traditional and often simplistic standrd handles.
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Sounds spot on to me!

I've been in Japan twice in the past 2-3 months. First time I was bored seeing all the hos around. Why can't they get more variety and some of those cool ones all over the net? I thought. While I still would like more variety (shops there often tend to specialise in just 1 or a small number of makers, or carry their own single housebrand) this time I appreciated the 'boringness' of it more and felt I could concentrate more on the knives: blades with handles, not cool handles with attached blades. ;) Anyway, that was kind of my feeling.

Dmn! There's really been an explosion of Burlists popping out of the cracks and this past day has been a rout! Simple 9 - Burl 12 - Depends 3

I'm losing my belief in humanity....
 
There is no right or wrong. Simply personal preferences and cultural variance.
 
I may have come across harshly before but my feeling is that it all comes down to personal taste.
I prefer fancier figured woods and burl, but I like more conservative combinations.
For my personal likes I steer away from too much bling. But that is what some people want.

This thread brings back to memory a knife show in Portland several years back.
Our tables were next to a Japanese knife manufacturer. The father who did not speak English kept looking at the different types of wood I had.
The children who spoke English mentioned that their father said he had never seen wood like this before.
I told them to tell their father he could pick out a piece to have as a gift.
When they told him he shook his head no and they talked back and forth for a few minutes.
They came back to me and said that their father said thank you but he could not accept the gift.
I told them that I enjoyed seeing people getting wood that they really like and hoped he would accept my gift.
After they talked a bit more the father came over and shyly said thank you in english.
He took a bit of time looking through all the wood and finally picked out a piece of Buckeye Burl. Probably the boldest/least conservative piece on the tables.

During the coming days the children kept bringing over other Japanese people who ended up purchasing a number of blocks of burl.
The most popular with them were Buckeye Burl, Redwood Burl and white Maple Burl.

The last day of the show we purchased a knife for our son inlaw. They insisted we only pay half price.
The mother and father did not speak english, but were very enjoyable neighbors throughout the show.
 
I'm all for the simple but well crafted peices. I enjoy the look of the Burls but as someone else I think said it just ends up looking too busy to me sometimes. A nice magnolia, or iichi, ebony and horn ferrule. I'll take that crafted at a high level over multiple burls used in one handle.
 
"As we're talking about J-knives here, it might be worth thinking of things like this description of 'wabi-sabi': 'The primary aesthetic concept at the heart of traditional Japanese culture is the value of harmony in all things. The Japanese world view is nature-based and concerned with the beauty of studied simplicity and harmony with nature. "

Harmony does not only exist in simplicity. Multiple complex forms can be in harmony with each other. Color, scale, pattern, texture, etc. can be variable, but in the hands of a craftsman harmony can be achieved even with diverse elements. Whether the harmony of the creation is perceived by the user is a matter of taste and that depends on the individual. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Having said all that, I vote for burl.
 
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Burl Source said:
This thread brings back to memory a knife show in Portland several years back. Our tables were next to a Japanese knife manufacturer ... He took a bit of time looking through all the wood and finally picked out a piece of Buckeye Burl. Probably the boldest/least conservative piece on the tables....During the coming days the children kept bringing over other Japanese people who ended up purchasing a number of blocks of burl. The most popular with them were Buckeye Burl, Redwood Burl and white Maple Burl. ...
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Hehe... Nice story there. Of course the wood must have been beautiful and I'm not suprised the Japanese were attracted to it. Natural stuff, so of course they'd love it. However, doesn't mean they brought it home and made handles out of it! :thumbsup:

Current tally - Elegant Simplistics 10 - Brash Burlists 14 - 'It depends' types 3 ... Jeez! :pullhair:
 
My burgeoning collection is tiny compared to almost everyone else's here, but I think it's safe to say that I like both simple, utilitarian handles as well as the well-finished works of art I've seen in pictures here. My first was a simple D ho, the next was an oval in... WTH was it? Rose? Cherry? But I've fallen in love with the black horn/ebony octagonal that Leigh (?) put on the yanagiba I picked up from Messy Jesse. I can't wait to see what Mike comes up with using the black palm blocks!
 
Vote : IT DEPENDS
..... On the knife, and the user.

I think that the assumption that a "fancy" handle cant be a harmonious or balanced one is wrong.

The more elements you have in a design, the more difficult it is to balance, but that doesnt mean that its impossible; just that it takes skill...
 
My vote: It depend.

While the I like my simple ho wood or ebony wood, sometime people make a extremely pretty handle that you yearn to have like this one.
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As long as the color and texture on the handle is not too busy, I am ok with it.
 
I like a simple ferrule, like Buffalo Horn or Micarta, a single spacer layer (maybe) then a nice burled wood or one of my laminates for the main part of the handle for a Wa style handle. For a Western handle, burled wood or camo laminate with maybe 1 spacer layer. If there is no metal bolster, I just do a 1 piece western style handle. I usually go with 2 small 1/8" diameter Mosaic pins, or solid stainless or copper. I tried the bigger mosaic pins and they look nice, but sometimes take away from the piece of wood. I like looking at the figure in the wood, but having 2 crazy burls I think would be overdoing it.

The environment for the knife would also change my choices. Fillet or fishing knives, I want something durable with good grip when it's wet/slimy and cosmetics mean less. Kitchen knife, I want something that will make the knife stand out, but not be too gaudy.

I like the handle AddictforLife posted. Nice horn, single spacer, nice piece of figured wood. Simple, clean, tasteful!
 
It's marko, love most of the handle he put out. Might get a custom from in the future when I stop being a cheap bum?
 
For an "exhibition" grade knife fancy is fine.

But for my "working" knives I prefer "D" ho wood handles. Not only for practicality but mostly for function.
 
Salty dog said:
For an "exhibition" grade knife fancy is fine.

But for my "working" knives I prefer "D" ho wood handles. Not only for practicality but mostly for function.
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I too like D better than octagonal, though I like them in hardwoods.

M
 
This thread seems to have morphed a bit, but it is a difference between plain handles and burl, I definitely vote burl.

That being said, I am a little confused on the camps here. Personally I prefer a solid burl look, something with character and depth. I have seen a lot of things that might fall in the simple category that I don't like at all, two tones that (to me) clash horribly. Normally it is the non-burl woods that are combined to apparently clash, but I do not find it pleasing to the eye. I am failing at recalling a burl on burl combination, but I agree that would probably be busy.

With the 3 combinations, I normally prefer a simple, cleaner look. A nice wood (probably burl), silver spacer or the like, and a black or simple ferrule that fits the wood.
 
mc2442 said:
... I am failing at recalling a burl on burl combination, but I agree that would probably be busy.
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You should thumb through Mike Henry's Handles thread down in the "Show Your Work" subforum. Mike has put together some pretty nice burl on burl combinations. Now I do admit you'll also find some that probably will not be your cup of tea.
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
I too like D better than octagonal, though I like them in hardwoods.

M
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Depending on the blade.

I am becoming a member of the "feel as little handle" club. Mostly because of the work I'm currently doing.

Exotic handles are cool, no doubt but you won't find them in my kitchen.

But there are a couple in the closet.
 
Salty dog said:
Depending on the blade.

I am becoming a member of the "feel as little handle" club. Mostly because of the work I'm currently doing.

Exotic handles are cool, no doubt but you won't find them in my kitchen.

But there are a couple in the closet.
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I was thinking along of cocobolo or ebony. The weigh difference between ho and these hardwood wold be in the area of 50 gram, changing the total weight from 170g to about 220g. The balance would still be forward.

M
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
I was thinking along of cocobolo or ebony. The weigh difference between ho and these hardwood wold be in the area of 50 gram, changing the total weight from 170g to about 220g. The balance would still be forward.

M
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Cocobolo is and will remain for some time my favorite wood for handles and saya. I'm always disheartened at the trash talk it receives, but if ever I come upon the money to enjoy a Marko made knife and saya, cocobolo will undoubtedly be an element.
 
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