The next Kato/Shigefusa: Western Workhorses

I alluded to this in another discussion, but I thought it deserved its own thread.

Now that Shig and Kato are very hard to get, especially in the western-handled variants, who is next? What western workhorse is worth paying big buck for?

Do you mean western handled workhorse? Either way Toyama is the new king.

First you need to define "workhorse". Kato and Shigefusa are very different knives and can't fall into the same definition.

bkultra said:

First you need to define "workhorse". Kato and Shigefusa are very different knives and can't fall into the same definition.

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Fair enough. I guess I'm thinking more of a Kato than a Shigefusa. A substantial feel with a western handle.

bkultra said:

First you need to define "workhorse". Kato and Shigefusa are very different knives and can't fall into the same definition.

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Also yes. Who even knows what it means anymore. I'm guessing either big heavy knife or a knife that can do everything reasonably well.

labor of love said:

Do you mean western handled workhorse? Either way Toyama is the new king.

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Hmmm. I haven't seen a Toyama with a western handle. Do they exist?

stuplarosa said:

Hmmm. I haven't seen a Toyama with a western handle. Do they exist?

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Nope. Buy one anyway.

Wakui or toyama!

I was annoyed to miss out on an Itinomonn Western bolsterless!

+1 Toyama

labor of love said:

Nope. Buy one anyway.

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Or get a custom western handle made for the Toyama. I got a custom Japanese handle on mine!

Off topic I know, but can anyone shed some light on what exactly an "S grind" is? Seems to come up often in the Kato/Shig workhorse discussions.

StonedEdge said:

Off topic I know, but can anyone shed some light on what exactly an "S grind" is? Seems to come up often in the Kato/Shig workhorse discussions.

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The Dalman in the photo below is an example of an S geind:

Thanks Khashy! I assume this is meant to minimalize food sticking to the blade? How would one go about thinning one​ of these when the time came?

StonedEdge said:

Thanks Khashy! I assume this is meant to minimalize food sticking to the blade? How would one go about thinning one​ of these when the time came?

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I don't have first hand experience but I would guess it can also help reduce the drag on some produce.

StonedEdge said:

Thanks Khashy! I assume this is meant to minimalize food sticking to the blade? How would one go about thinning one​ of these when the time came?

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To some extent, primarily for ease of cutting the way I do it. Sharpen like a low/short widebevel.

RDalman said:

To some extent, primarily for ease of cutting the way I do it. Sharpen like a low/short widebevel.

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Yup, what he said - you know, the guy that makes them :wink:

RDalman said:

To some extent, primarily for ease of cutting the way I do it. Sharpen like a low/short widebevel.

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Ahh makes sense! Btw your IG feed makes me drool haha

Toyama and Wakui are both great picks. I would also add Yoshikasu Ikeda, but he is quite pricey already.

fatboylim said:

Toyama and Wakui are both great picks. I would also add Yoshikasu Ikeda, but he is quite pricey already.

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i have not tried a Toyama, but i +1 with the yoshikazu ikeda/Kasahara. Think half my post mention i replaced my shig's and kato's after trying these. I have had a few people contact me about them since i posted a little spotlight on this maker but since i have an odd source thats not easily obtainable for anyone else im working on finding if any of my sources clients in japan have a web presence anywhere, i will update when i get a solid answer.

Let me know, I maybe interested in the future for a honyaki from him!

OP here.

I feel like I asked, "What is a really good stout beer?"

And the forum answered, "You should really drink wine." and then went off to discuss the best wines....

stuplarosa said:

OP here.

I feel like I asked, "What is a really good stout beer?"

And the forum answered, "You should really drink wine." and then went off to discuss the best wines....

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What have you been smoking???
... and can I have some?

To be honest what you're looking for doesn't exist. Kato is a one of a kind thing, if you really want one with a western handle you might as well save up $700-800 and start a wtb thread. Or find a custom maker that uses really thick blade stock and get your own custom.

stuplarosa said:

OP here.

I feel like I asked, "What is a really good stout beer?"

And the forum answered, "You should really drink wine." and then went off to discuss the best wines....

Click to expand...

labor of love said:

To be honest what you're looking for doesn't exist. Kato is a one of a kind thing, if you really want one with a western handle you might as well save up $700-800 and start a wtb thread. Or find a custom maker that uses really thick blade stock and get your own custom.

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That's what I was afraid of. The money isn't an issue, but I don't have enough posts to post a wtb, so I'll hang around for a while and see what I can learn. Who knows? Maybe I'll change my mind.

Xerxes knives look intriguing, would love to try one out. Seen some nice looking hidden tang western-ish handles such as the primus series, and he offers a "workhorse" grind for whatever that's worth

I'm not sure if this is the kind of thing you are looking for ( http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=30927 ) ?

I reckon Mert would put a western handle on one if you asked.

Waiting list could be a few months (or longer) though.

I say, go on a limb, try stuff out and find your own perfect knife, its cheaper (we´ll maybe not!) and more fun that way... what is perfect for one knife nut is not for another.

You can always post a WTB for a kato if you dont like what you get, its part of the journey.

Good luck with the search!

I'd choose a custom maker and have one made for me! Dave Martell, DT, Marko Tsourkan, Haburn, Haas, Catcheside, Dalman, etc. Plenty of sweet stuff to choose from!

However, waiting can be long! I have been and still am waiting for a knife since January 2013 from one of the vendors here on the forums... In the meantime I have found and purchased several Shigs, 2 Hattori KDs, a Kato, and some other stuff. Just saying the wait can be long unless you find or look for one on BST.

stuplarosa said:

OP here.

I feel like I asked, "What is a really good stout beer?"

And the forum answered, "You should really drink wine." and then went off to discuss the best wines....

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I would guess most people here go for lasers over heavy knives. Workhorses recently have received respect, but then most folks go for Japanese handles. So you may be asking a group of wine drinkers, what's the third best stout beer...

What if you emailed the vendors that carried the knives and said I'd like to buy a Kato but don't want to wait. What's the next best heavy knife with a western handle that I can buy now?