deba sharpening assistance

[Joe1828]

Hi all, new to the forum and just getting started with J knives and sharpening. Hope to learn from everyone here.

I bought an inexpensive stainless steel lefty Fuji Cutlery Co deba from ebay and decided to try and learn to sharpen it. It came with a micro bevel but was blunt. The rear was flat without uraoshi. I watched Jon's uraoshi video and Korin's deba sharpening video on you tube before starting out.

Q1: I know my deba is not up to forum member standards, but from the attached pic #2, I was not able to get a nice thin edge on the flat side like what I see on uraoshi sharpening pics. I made sure my Naniwa 400 Pro was flat with a diamond plate before starting out. I applied pressure during push stroke and made sure to the knife was flat on the stone. Is the result due to the poor/uneven blade or did I use wrong method to do the uraoshi sharpening?

Q2: Edge sharpening - Is there a general consensus to have a toothy or polished edge for debas? Started with #400 but could not rid of the original microbevel edge. Had to go back to #150 diamond plate, followed by Naniwa Pro#400, Gesshin #2000, Naniwa Trad #8000 and leather strop/ diamond paste. Now it finally cuts! Pic #1 is after sharpening.

Q3: Do you recommend a microbevel for debas? Or it depends on a number of factors?

Thanks.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Having used the pro #400 for such stuff, I can say two things: a) it loads up and doesn't even look loaded up. Give it a rub with another coarse stone or flattener whenever it becomes slow. b) pressure makes much of a difference in speed with this one.

 

[Joe1828]

OK, thanks, will give it another go.

 

[S-Line]

Q1: I know my deba is not up to forum member standards, but from the attached pic #2, I was not able to get a nice thin edge on the flat side like what I see on uraoshi sharpening pics. I made sure my Naniwa 400 Pro was flat with a diamond plate before starting out. I applied pressure during push stroke and made sure to the knife was flat on the stone. Is the result due to the poor/uneven blade or did I use wrong method to do the uraoshi sharpening?

Q2: Edge sharpening - Is there a general consensus to have a toothy or polished edge for debas? Started with #400 but could not rid of the original microbevel edge. Had to go back to #150 diamond plate, followed by Naniwa Pro#400, Gesshin #2000, Naniwa Trad #8000 and leather strop/ diamond paste. Now it finally cuts! Pic #1 is after sharpening.

Q3: Do you recommend a microbevel for debas? Or it depends on a number of factors?

1. First of all, you need to take it easy on the uraoshi. For me I do the ura on a slightly higher grit stone, never anything less than 800/1k~. The purpose of doing the ura is really "truing" the edge and to deburr. Light pressure while sharpening the ura but do maybe a 10 light passes on it, that is all it takes.

2. I prefer to have my deba finished at no more than 2k grit with a steep microbevel towards the heel half of the blade for added durability when I need to cut thru bones. I frequently have to cut fish with thicker skin and the bite from a lower grit stone really helps imo.

3. Yes, at least for the heel half of the blade. The edge really takes a beating when you're trying to get the head off a tennen madai or god forbid a kintoki dai.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

An uneven ura can give you a frown in the edge profile. Learned that lesson the hard way. Unless you are either Mr Sugai or trying to fix a broken knife, taking a diamond plate (or even a 400) to the ura is likely a bad idea.

Microbeveling the heel is something I also found recommended in japanese-english articles and books... And it supports my crackpot theory of the deba being more general purpose in intent than we think it is these days

 

[Joe1828]

Thanks S-Line and LifebyA1000 Cuts for the information.

I am glad it was only a $20 deba ! Lesson learnt. With the #8000 polish, I am somewhat surprised, it is really sharp. Now to get some fish to try it out but first, I need to put the micro bevel at the heel.

Next .. to find a cheap lefty yanigaba to practice my uraoshi :biggrin:

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Why not practice it on an even cheaper righty?

PS, I have a few cheap katabas ... Mikihisas and interestingly (at least some of) the very cheap Sekiryu seem to have a urasuki while the Tojiro Zen *apparently* have some other ura grind structure (not totally flat but won't give the shining rim), Tojiro Shirogami has Urasuki (beware: I am comparing different knife shapes from different series here), Kai Wasabi apparently has not (I do not own any but had some in hand).

 

[zitangy]

"The rear was flat without uraoshi."

From yr 2nd pic. the Ura side is not flat as u have said.. as there is quite a fair bit of unpolished area.

Have a knife like that.. too much shiny spots on the Ura side. A well grounded single bevel wld have only abt 1-2mm all along on the spine and above the edge.

Now its a works in progress for me as I am trying to have less shiny spots by grinding it on a hand held manual handsander , ( a rubber semi dome that you can secure sandpaper on) mounted on a vice so that i can choose how large the concave area that i desire ,and backed with leather so that it will be concave grind.... ... Did it on 600grit sandpaper AND its more evenly polished. its knife to the stone and not handsander to the knife.

Btw... this is also how i introduce a slighly concave grind on thick "pregnant knives" for a quick solution..

I also do this on the area above the Shinogi line.... with the hope that it reduces stiction...

have fun..
rgds
D

 

[Joe1828]

Why not practice it on an even cheaper righty?

PS, I have a few cheap katabas ... Mikihisas and interestingly (at least some of) the very cheap Sekiryu seem to have a urasuki while the Tojiro Zen *apparently* have some other ura grind structure (not totally flat but won't give the shining rim), Tojiro Shirogami has Urasuki (beware: I am comparing different knife shapes from different series here), Kai Wasabi apparently has not (I do not own any but had some in hand).

Am a lefty. Figure I could at least use the single bevel knives "normally" if I got a lefty version? I'll look at some of those recommended brands . Thanks.

"The rear was flat without uraoshi."

From yr 2nd pic. the Ura side is not flat as u have said.. as there is quite a fair bit of unpolished area.

Have a knife like that.. too much shiny spots on the Ura side. A well grounded single bevel wld have only abt 1-2mm all along on the spine and above the edge.

Now its a works in progress for me as I am trying to have less shiny spots by grinding it on a hand held manual handsander , ( a rubber semi dome that you can secure sandpaper on) mounted on a vice so that i can choose how large the concave area that i desire ,and backed with leather so that it will be concave grind.... ... Did it on 600grit sandpaper AND its more evenly polished. its knife to the stone and not handsander to the knife.

Btw... this is also how i introduce a slighly concave grind on thick "pregnant knives" for a quick solution..

I also do this on the area above the Shinogi line.... with the hope that it reduces stiction...

have fun..
rgds
D

Yes, kind of having fun and learning. What you are doing with the grinding sounds interesting but probably beyond what I want spend time on right now..haha.. but thanks for the information anyway.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

These would be doubtfully recommendable for serious use, but inexpensive enough to experiment and good enough to use