Do you always remove "flotsam" from your soups?

[boomchakabowwow]

boiling bones and meat. the gray foam floating on top. you always remove it? I am making Posole right now. I did a half-hearted skim at the beginning and then let the rest boil into the soup. my logic is that I am turning it all dark red soon anyways. I am not targeting a clear broth.

your thoughts on the matter?

( I just google the diff between Flotsam and Jetsam - hahaha. now I know)

 

[Rangen]

No, not if I don't care about a clear broth.

I once did an experiment. Two stockpots with identical ingredients. One brought to a very gentle simmer and left there (doesn't produce much flotsam at all), the other a vigorous boil and kept at a lively simmer/near-boil.

6 hours later, the first produced a nice clear stock. The second produced a cloudy, ugly, messy-looking stock. (I equalized liquid volumes before tasting)

I expected the first one to produce a more refined stock, the preferred choice for a soup, and the second to produce a more dirty stock that might have merits for flavoring other dishes.

Nope! The second stock was tons better, much more flavor, rich on the palate.

So I stopped fearing the flotsam.

I should add that I always use stewing cuts in my stock, not stuff like chicken breast that tastes bad if overcooked.

 

[boomchakabowwow]

I should add that I always use stewing cuts in my stock, not stuff like chicken breast that tastes bad if overcooked.

boiled chicken breast would be very very weird.

only in my chicken noodle soup and I shred the perfectly cooked white meat, and add it back at the end only to warm thru.

 

[Delat]

No, not if I don't care about a clear broth.

I once did an experiment. Two stockpots with identical ingredients. One brought to a very gentle simmer and left there (doesn't produce much flotsam at all), the other a vigorous boil and kept at a lively simmer/near-boil.

6 hours later, the first produced a nice clear stock. The second produced a cloudy, ugly, messy-looking stock. (I equalized liquid volumes before tasting)

I expected the first one to produce a more refined stock, the preferred choice for a soup, and the second to produce a more dirty stock that might have merits for flavoring other dishes.

Nope! The second stock was tons better, much more flavor, rich on the palate.

So I stopped fearing the flotsam.

I should add that I always use stewing cuts in my stock, not stuff like chicken breast that tastes bad if overcooked.

This was my experience too. I mentioned over in the discussion about Momofuku that I tried his ramen recipe by the book and found it fairly plain.

His instructions say to do a very low simmer to make the main broth. On my next attempt I went with my usual fast simmer and there was tons more flavor. The stock definitely wasn’t as pretty, but flavor wins hands down every time for me.

 

[Godinlhi]

I agree with Rangen.

I’ve worked for some chefs that would kill you if you didn’t skim, others who don’t give a ****. End of the day it’s really the purity of the stock and presentation.
If you’re serving a consommé you probably want a more visually appealing end product.

 

[Seemore]

I can’t resist. Ogden Nash:

Does anybody want any flotsam?
I've gotsam.
Does anybody want any jetsam?
I can getsam.

 

[superworrier]

This was my experience too. I mentioned over in the discussion about Momofuku that I tried his ramen recipe by the book and found it fairly plain.

His instructions say to do a very low simmer to make the main broth. On my next attempt I went with my usual fast simmer and there was tons more flavor. The stock definitely wasn’t as pretty, but flavor wins hands down every time for me.

There is a potential stylistic difference here (chintan (clear) vs paitan (cloudy)).
I don't think low simmer is inherently wrong, and many of the top rated places in Japan have a clear broth produced at a low simmer. Cloudy will usually have emulsified fat. It's gonna be different, not necessarily better or worse.

I can't comment on his recipe specifically, but it's not uncommon for people with more western palettes to prefer soups with more emulsified fat. I do think his recipe is probably from a different age. I honestly wouldn't expect it to be good. Not even knocking him, as the standards in the US were lower then, and it's definitely not his main focus at all.

 

[superworrier]

I think a big sorta gotcha with the bare simmer if you do need to physically break up the chicken or whatever or you're not really extracting right. At least that seemed to be the case. But overall, it's a lot easier to make a soup with a lot of emulsified fat taste good. It's very easy to make chintan ramen that sucks.

Also I would not compare 6 hours gentle simmer to 6 hours rapid simmer. Because of the higher temperature and agitation, extraction will happen way faster (guessing that agitation is the major factor here, and that is chintan ramen is trying to avoid, major agitation that will emulsify the fat into the broth).
To give an analogy using an extreme case, it's like comparing coffee made with ground coffee steeped in hot water for 4 minutes, vs whole beans in room temp water for 4 minutes. The second is gonna be terrible, but you can get something good if you grind the beans and use a much longer steep (days). However, the result is different, not necessarily better or worse.

I would agree that outside of specific contexts (consomme, chintan ramen, situations with very delicate flavors) it's not gonna make much of a difference.

 

[Rangen]

I guess I should confess that my go-to stock is still done at a gentle simmer, but I do it over three days, 16 hours a day. By that time, breaking up the meat is no longer relevant; the bones will crush under finger pressure, and the meat is almost entirely devoid of flavor.

This is less about conviction that it's the best possible way, and more about maximizing extraction without having to constantly top up the pot, or forget and wind up with burned glace-like substance. Once was enough for that. Wasting 15 pounds of good meat is quite a wake-up call.

It does produce a pretty clear and rich stock, though.

 

[Delat]

To give an analogy using an extreme case, it's like comparing coffee made with ground coffee steeped in hot water for 4 minutes, vs whole beans in room temp water for 4 minutes. The second is gonna be terrible, but you can get something good if you grind the beans and use a much longer steep (days). However, the result is different, not necessarily better or worse.

Coffee grounds steeped at room temp overnight gives you cold brew, which is pretty great

 

[superworrier]

Coffee grounds steeped at room temp overnight gives you cold brew, which is pretty great

Yup, that's what I was getting at. Try it with chicken at your own risk.

 

[DoYoon Kim]

Yeah you want clean meat, low temp and long time.

I think everyone above covered the low temp and long time, but if we are talking supermarket meat you want to soak and clean too.