Exspresso machines (fully auto)

[cooper]

Been kicking around changing up the coffee machine.....currently have a Bonavita brewer and it does a good cup, proper temp but occasionally crave a mocha, latte, cappuccino, etc.....and probably would do so more often if I had a full auto type machine. Last night I tried the Jura J6 and Jura E8 machines.....Wow both machines were excellent. My wife and I tried the coffee only and it was absolutely smooth, rich and no hint of bitter what so ever, we both thought it bettered our Bonavita machine .....we also tried the latte and it was fantastic too. I have never given much thought on a full auto machine probably because of price and maintenance but after trying this type of machine I'm strongly thinking of getting one. I never paid much attention to the Jura brand before but they seem to be a quality machine......Your thoughts would be most welcome, thanks.

 

[WildBoar]

Are you talking about machines that store/ grind the beans, brew and even froth the milk with no hand-on needed from you?

 

[cooper]

Are you talking about machines that store/ grind the beans, brew and even froth the milk with no hand-on needed from you?

Yes.....I may not be using the right name for the machines but the one's that can do several types of drinks like mocha, latte, cappuccino, whites, coffee, etc. and have water reservoir, grinder and other features. This is one of the models that I tried https://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-3622453/Jura+J6+Automatic+Coffee+Center another one I been looking at is https://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-3487576/ both we tried and they did a excellent brew. Just need to get educated on the differences between the machine and its features and my needs......any other recommendations are welcome, thanks.

 

[WildBoar]

My practical experience with fully auto machines like that are limited to a Saeco my sister has at her house. Whenever we go visit I probably brew at least couple dozen cappuccinos during our stay. It is convenient, but I really prefer my semi-auto machine and stand-alone grinder by a large margin.

The Limitations I have seen are:

- Beans left in the hopper get staler every minute, and you have to leave the hopper fairly full for the beans feed properly. So the quality steadily decreases over a few days.
- The grind settings are very limited. Basically 5-6 stepped settings, and that is it. Dialing in a bean is almost impossible, especially due to the ongoing staleness progression.
- There is a setting for coffee 'strength'. What's up with that? NOT part of a normal espresso machine, and it adds a variable that is difficult to account for.
- You cannot manually froth milk in a container. I could not froth without it going into a coffee drink. Big limitation, since our 4 year old loves knocking down a cup or two of milk foam each morning...

On the 'plus' side, the drinks are usually 'smooth', but that is largely attributed to shot times being too short. And forget fancy espresso beans, as the nuanced flavors will be largely AWOL. Stick to the 'rustic' blends in order to achieve something semi-close to a proper espresso shot in my opinion.

For the price of a fully auto machine, I personally feel a used (but not too old) semi-auto double-boiler espresso machine and a used Supper Jolly grinder are the way to go.

 

[cooper]

My practical experience with fully auto machines like that are limited to a Saeco my sister has at her house. Whenever we go visit I probably brew at least couple dozen cappuccinos during our stay. It is convenient, but I really prefer my semi-auto machine and stand-alone grinder by a large margin.

The Limitations I have seen are:

- Beans left in the hopper get staler every minute, and you have to leave the hopper fairly full for the beans feed properly. So the quality steadily decreases over a few days.
- The grind settings are very limited. Basically 5-6 stepped settings, and that is it. Dialing in a bean is almost impossible, especially due to the ongoing staleness progression.
- There is a setting for coffee 'strength'. What's up with that? NOT part of a normal espresso machine, and it adds a variable that is difficult to account for.
- You cannot manually froth milk in a container. I could not froth without it going into a coffee drink. Big limitation, since our 4 year old loves knocking down a cup or two of milk foam each morning...

On the 'plus' side, the drinks are usually 'smooth', but that is largely attributed to shot times being too short. And forget fancy espresso beans, as the nuanced flavors will be largely AWOL. Stick to the 'rustic' blends in order to achieve something semi-close to a proper espresso shot in my opinion.

For the price of a fully auto machine, I personally feel a used (but not too old) semi-auto double-boiler espresso machine and a used Supper Jolly grinder are the way to go.

Thank you WildBoar for your comments......I'll be sure to check out some of the things you pointed out. The froth issue you bring up wouldn't be a concern with me or my wife as everything would be going in the cup. I did ask about the grinder and its something Jura has worked on over the years and say its very good grinder. The hopper thing with beans sitting for days is a concern of mine, will see if something can be worked out there. The grind adjustments seemed fine to the both of us.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

From having dealt with these beasts in office situations: They survive months without proper cleaning. So does a lot of stuff inside them. And they are as complex (and disturbingly similar) as laser printers inside.

 

[cooper]

Last night my wife and I went back to the store that had the full auto coffee machines and demoed the Mieli 6350, Breville Oracle and the Jura J6 machines for a second time.....ended up going with the Jura 6 machine.....we both felt it made the best drinks and was easy to use. The Breville was also very good but I woughtn't call it a full auto machine though as you needed to transfer the grounded coffee to its final brewing place, another factor was the Breville took about 20 minutes to fully heat its water from first turning the machine on. The Mieli 6350 had issues and wasn't working proper so we illuminated that right off the bat.....We also briefly tried one of the manual machines forget the brand but it was quite the mission from start to finish although it made a great cup but wouldn't say it beat out the Jura, maybe it could have after spending time tweaking the settings, etc.....I guess the coffee aficionados would never consider a full auto and that's fine, I can appreciate that approach and such but it just wasn't for us. All in all I say the full auto Jura J6 made a cup just as well as our local coffee place.

 

[WildBoar]

Enjoy it. My sister really likes her full-auto machine. It does what she wants/ needs it to do.

Your next decision will be about beans. irate1:

 

[akirapuff]

Wildboar, what kind of setup are you running? Espresso machine and grinder? just curious..

 

[Corradobrit1]

All in one machines are a compromise. If you're serious about coffee get separate burr grinder and espresso machine. I started at the bottom with a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder. My current setup is commercial grade which is plumbed in to the water mains. I have a manual lever Londinium L1P and Nuova Simonelli Mythos One Clima Pro grinder which i bought used. Beans are also critical. I buy 5lb bags of whole beans, aliquot them into 200g baggies and freeze. This ensures they stay fresh for extended periods.
Can't remember last time I bought coffee at Starbucks.....

 

[WildBoar]

Wildboar, what kind of setup are you running? Espresso machine and grinder? just curious..

La Marzocco GS3 (about 10 years old now, slightly predated the paddle machine) and an Astoria-badged Mazzer Super Jolly. Bought the GS3 new, during a 'fire sale' at Chris' Coffee; bought the SJ used via eBay.

 

[akirapuff]

Wow.. gs 3 my dream machine. Im currently using ecm giotto that i bought used for couple hundred bucks. And lyn weber hg1 hand grinder that i motorized with a kitchen aid motor. I like to single dose, and it was the cleanest option. Currently doing an espresso subscrption from ritual coffee sweet tooth.

 

[WildBoar]

I bought a used, beat-up La Pavoni lever just before the GS3, and an Italian friend of mine begged me to let him borrow it so he could fix it up. I let him keep it on loan so he would have a machine at work for a little while. That was a little over 10 years ago, and he retired 2 years ago

Giottos are nice. Main thing with any machine is being able to keep desired temp and pressure. Since I make mainly cappas, I like dual-boiler machines, especially since I sometimes have to knock out several at a time. The grinder is the biggest challenge. As long as it has good adjustability, doesn't move too fast, and maintains the setting it should get the job done. Sometimes the biggest challenge to this whole thing is keeping the beans from getting too stale.