Slowest wearing medium grit synthetic?

[Luftmensch]

Regarding the Crystolon. It's like the grinding on the Sigma 240, but, the teeth clenching grinding is ramped up 100x. And stays flatter waaayyy longer.

Yuck. Last night I tried 80(?) grit SiC on the shapton 120.... The grains are about the size of sugar grains or coarse sand... Man was that unpleasant. Not quite as bad as scratching fingernails across a blackboard... but moving in that direction!

 

[Luftmensch]

That said I picked up a vitrified 400 from @Deadboxhero

Thoughts? I am tempted by the Naniwa Diamond 400... (due to local availability). I believe vitrified diamond are slow... which I am probably ok with if they keep cutting continuously - although I believe they do get clogged and glazed? At least with low grits, 'contaminants' from the dressing stone aren't really a problem - so refreshing the surface is less finicky.

 

[tgfencer]

Thoughts? I am tempted by the Naniwa Diamond 400... (due to local availability). I believe vitrified diamond are slow... which I am probably ok with if they keep cutting continuously - although I believe they do get clogged and glazed? At least with low grits, 'contaminants' from the dressing stone aren't really a problem - so refreshing the surface is less finicky.

I’ve only had the chance to use a handful of times since I got it last week, but it’s great. No visible glazing or clogging and quite fast, certainly fast enough for most people, especially considering there’s no flattening to be done. And it feels very nice for a low grit/diamond. Start to finish time on that grit certainly beat my Gesshin 400 hands down. Haven’t had a chance to do any thinning jobs on it yet though I’ll report back when I do.

Can’t speak to a Naniwa diamond comparison.

All that said @Deadboxhero could give you much better info than me. You can also message him on Instagram at triplebhandmade.

 

[Luftmensch]

@tgfencer,

Thanks for the response!

And it feels very nice for a low grit/diamond.

Have you had experience with the Shapton Glass 500 or the Chosera 400? If so, how does it compare to those? Finish? Speed? Feel?

I am surprised there is no glazing/clogging... It appears to be expected with the Naniwa Diamond stones...



Maybe that is more of a concern at higher grits?

@Deadboxhero, you're the resident vitrified diamond guru! What is your perspective? I am also keen to hear how your Super Vitrified Diamond stones compare to the Naniwa Diamond stones (from your previous points it seems like: no soaking and less clogging)? Do you think they fit @spaceconvoy's quest for a stone that will "remove the most metal per mm of stone thickness"? The only downside seems to be price (significant), availability and speed (not significant... at least to me!).

 

[M-S-T]

@tgfencer,

Thanks for the response!



Have you had experience with the Shapton Glass 500 or the Chosera 400? If so, how does it compare to those? Finish? Speed? Feel?

I am surprised there is no glazing/clogging... It appears to be expected with the Naniwa Diamond stones...



Maybe that is more of a concern at higher grits?

@Deadboxhero, you're the resident vitrified diamond guru! What is your perspective? I am also keen to hear how your Super Vitrified Diamond stones compare to the Naniwa Diamond stones (from your previous points it seems like: no soaking and less clogging)? Do you think they fit @spaceconvoy's quest for a stone that will "remove the most metal per mm of stone thickness"? The only downside seems to be price (significant), availability and speed (not significant... at least to me!).

Most of the time VDS stones falls right in between electroplated and resin. Speed and surface finish wise it is exactly that. A little bit slower or very close to electroplated, but faster than resin. Same with the surface finish. Finer than electroplated, but resin is superior for polishing tasks. Mostly this is related to the abrasive particle friability and protrusion percentage from the matrix. Tipically resin bonded abrasives are made from a more fragile diamond grades with a better self sharpening ability. At the same time it has the lowest particle exposure. Electroplated is the oposite of the resin regarding. Vitrified is unique because it has a very hard matrix and the least fragile, strongest type of diamond, but the particle protrusion percentage is somewhere in between the resin and electroplated. Tactile feedback is best out of them. You can feel immediately that it is a ceramic stone. It is a pleasurable stone for sure. You should understand that everything that doesn't fracture and doesn't give slurry will load. That's just the reality of things. Now, how much it will load may vary a lot. It is rarely a problem with low grits and gets worse as you go up the grit range. In my opinion VDS has the best wear autoregulation. Meaning, the "wear rate" of the abrasive and the matrix is more or less equal or at least the best in the industry at the moment. It is almost impossible to glaze the surface so it doesn't cut. Something that may happen with resin pretty easily. Because of all that VDS will remove the most amount of material with a given thickness of the abrasive layer. Hands down. Everything I wrote is just a rough generalization.

 

[Deadboxhero]

@tgfencer,

Thanks for the response!



Have you had experience with the Shapton Glass 500 or the Chosera 400? If so, how does it compare to those? Finish? Speed? Feel?

I am surprised there is no glazing/clogging... It appears to be expected with the Naniwa Diamond stones...



Maybe that is more of a concern at higher grits?

@Deadboxhero, you're the resident vitrified diamond guru! What is your perspective? I am also keen to hear how your Super Vitrified Diamond stones compare to the Naniwa Diamond stones (from your previous points it seems like: no soaking and less clogging)? Do you think they fit @spaceconvoy's quest for a stone that will "remove the most metal per mm of stone thickness"? The only downside seems to be price (significant), availability and speed (not significant... at least to me!).

The Super Vitrified cuts faster and had the least amount of wear in testing compared to almost all the stones on the market.





The resin stones were all prone to loading and needed dressing frequently to keep cutting best otherwise they would glaze and burnish.

The Super Vitrified stones don't have that glazing problem, they have good feedback better than a Shapton Glass or Chosera; more like a soaking stone yet are splash and go.



The Super Vitrified 400grit stone is probably my favorite, it's an absolute monster.

A good coarse stone is very important.

Many of these 400 grit latte stones wore out and the Super Vitrified 400 grit still hasn't been flattened.

It's a lot of time to flatten these latte stones to keep the running good too.

The speed, splash and go convenience and the performance is very enjoyable.

These Super Vitrified stones require using very expensive materials to create but it's definitely worth the cost given the performance and features.

 

[Bolek]

Most of the time VDS stones falls right in between electroplated and resin. Speed and surface finish wise it is exactly that. A little bit slower or very close to electroplated, but faster than resin. Same with the surface finish. Finer than electroplated, but resin is superior for polishing tasks. Mostly this is related to the abrasive particle friability and protrusion percentage from the matrix. Tipically resin bonded abrasives are made from a more fragile diamond grades with a better self sharpening ability. At the same time it has the lowest particle exposure. Electroplated is the oposite of the resin regarding. Vitrified is unique because it has a very hard matrix and the least fragile, strongest type of diamond, but the particle protrusion percentage is somewhere in between the resin and electroplated. Tactile feedback is best out of them. You can feel immediately that it is a ceramic stone. It is a pleasurable stone for sure. You should understand that everything that doesn't fracture and doesn't give slurry will load. That's just the reality of things. Now, how much it will load may vary a lot. It is rarely a problem with low grits and gets worse as you go up the grit range. In my opinion VDS has the best wear autoregulation. Meaning, the "wear rate" of the abrasive and the matrix is more or less equal or at least the best in the industry at the moment. It is almost impossible to glaze the surface so it doesn't cut. Something that may happen with resin pretty easily. Because of all that VDS will remove the most amount of material with a given thickness of the abrasive layer. Hands down. Everything I wrote is just a rough generalization.

I am very happy with your VDS 400, 2k (my favorite) and 5k. I apply very low pressur on diamonds. Maybe I shoud have bought also the 1k. Up to now I use it for hard carbid steels, but I shall tray it on all knives I have.

 

[inferno]

Yuck. Last night I tried 80(?) grit SiC on the shapton 120.... The grains are about the size of sugar grains or coarse sand... Man was that unpleasant. Not quite as bad as scratching fingernails across a blackboard... but moving in that direction!

if you have a big enough piece of glass to do this on you can get some pretty nasty sounds out of it

 

[Luftmensch]

if you have a big enough piece of glass to do this on you can get some pretty nasty sounds out of it

Yuck!

 

[inferno]

Yuck!

i like this description...

feels like scraping metal on death.

i agree, its kinda like that. and it sounds like that too imo. very good description.