Are You Loyal?

[bsfsu]

Listed in order although Tokushu and Sugi are pretty interchangeable in position.

1. Knife Japan: Bar none, the pinnacle of customer service. Michael (owner) is just an awesome guy and each time you communicate with him you feel like you're talking to a friend. He will help you understand things before a purchase, provides prompt and excellent info after the purchase, can help with potential custom orders and just answer questions you may have. I also really dig the style of most of the inventory on KJ. I like the more budget oriented offerings and the small, lesser known smiths. Shipping is also very fast and has always been hassle free for me.

NOTE: I would put New Zealand's With Knives owned by forum member @bsfsu up here too but being in the states, shipping is a killer.

2 and 3. @TokushuKnife and Sugi Cutlery (@JoBone) also have excellent service, are good people, and are active forum supporters. These guys are also very good about answering questions and helping you out and both offer, to some extent or another, custom handle options if you want them. @JoBone is renowned for his handle craftsmanship. And, as of the time of this writing, they both offer forum discounts (Tokushu = KKF15 and Sugi = KKF2024).

4. Carbon Knife Company: I've just always done well with them. Good selection, prompt service, and so on.

But again, I've done well with Bernal, Strata, SHARP, Epic Edge, even CKTG.

I had my website shipping setup wrong, $75 NZD (around $50USD) for shipping to most countries. I shipped a Shindo to Tennessee a couple of weeks ago.

 

[OyakoDont]

Bernal is where I've spent the most and I look there first, mostly because they're the closest with that kind of inventory. Also, I've had good experiences with their customer service.

I don't know how I did not connect the dots earlier, probably because I was on mobile, but I found you! The unicorn of the post, a one shop buyer!

You first mentioned they are the closest with that kind of inventory. For the location part, is it seeing or handling the knives the benefit for you or is it the immediate possession of the knife after purchase? As for inventory, do you mean the variety of knives within a type (Japanese or Western), variety across types (the fact there are both Japanese, European, and American), or the quantity in which knives are available (i.e. not selling out so quickly)?

Does the publicity of Bernal do anything for you? They appear in local news often (it seems like more so in the past year than before) and seem to be trying to build a community network.

 

[timebard]

Honestly most of my collection (past and present) has come from BST, not retailers, so the poll feels sorta besides the point...

I have bought from most of the usual suspects, although weirdly never JKI (if Kochi migaki 240s ever restocked that'd change in a hurry). While there's some that I prefer over others (all else equal) based on good vibes, contributions to the community, etc, it mostly comes down to who's got something in stock (or can order it) at a good price.

 

[tostadas]

Yeah he convinced he I don’t need a Jnat, and let me tried on one too

Genius strategy! That's like a sidewalk dealer telling you that you're mentally strong, and then offering you a free sample.

I kid, Jon is awesome. But I still think thats funny

 

[OyakoDont]

Honestly most of my collection (past and present) has come from BST, not retailers, so the poll feels sorta besides the point...

I have bought from most of the usual suspects, although weirdly never JKI (if Kochi migaki 240s ever restocked that'd change in a hurry). While there's some that I prefer over others (all else equal) based on good vibes, contributions to the community, etc, it mostly comes down to who's got something in stock (or can order it) at a good price.

Honesty is always appreciated. The poll is not designed for everyone, I will add an option for that to capture some more data points. Another dimension of this might be if people go to a particular user for second-hand market sales, but I think that would simply boil down to availability and price.

Even though you mostly buy from BST, I appreciate you addressing retail shops and your preferences there!

 

[sousme]

I don't know how I did not connect the dots earlier, probably because I was on mobile, but I found you! The unicorn of the post, a one shop buyer!

You first mentioned they are the closest with that kind of inventory. For the location part, is it seeing or handling the knives the benefit for you or is it the immediate possession of the knife after purchase? As for inventory, do you mean the variety of knives within a type (Japanese or Western), variety across types (the fact there are both Japanese, European, and American), or the quantity in which knives are available (i.e. not selling out so quickly)?

Does the publicity of Bernal do anything for you? They appear in local news often (it seems like more so in the past year than before) and seem to be trying to build a community network.

To be clear, I'm not a one shop buyer. I was, however, a working chef in the bay area when they first opened, so I fell into the habit of buying stuff there even when I moved to the Sacramento area. The attraction (before discovering kkf) was indeed that I liked to feel the knife in my hand before purchasing it.

I'm happy that they are getting out there and I hope Josh and the crew get more business from the good press, but it doesn't have much to do with why I give them the first shot.

The problem is, now I have kkf to expose me to makers who sell direct. Which is what I find myself saving my money for now. Though I still check out BC's website when I'm bored at work.

Edit: I liked their variety of Japanese knives. When I first started going there I had just discovered the wonders (relative to my German steel) of Japanese edge geometry.

 

[mockit]

When allowed to buy directly from a maker, that is 100% the route I prefer. Otherwise, it comes down to price and availability. I have had nothing but great experiences with Carbon, Crocker, JKI, MC, and EatingTools. I see no reason to give one or two loyalty when they are all fabulous. Special shoutout to Jon at JKI though. He is always super helpful and conversational on Instagram. If I lived in LA, I'd stop by regularly. Crocker has been great as well. Express shipping, and they held a package for me over the holidays.

 

[NotAddictedYet]

Jon once talked me out of buying a stone because he didn’t think I needed it to accomplish what I was trying to do. Now THAT’s customer service. Can’t say that about you KKF filthy, disgusting, enablers!

If you browse KKF then it's safe to say you are looking for some enabling.

 

[AT5760]

Probably 40% BST, 40% retailers, 20% direct from maker. Didn’t see a poll option for that

Repeating a bunch of folks already, there are a lot of good retailers and makers out there. CKC & JKI have specifically provided great customer service; K&S offers great value.

 

[rickbern]

You seem to be wondering what good service looks like in the knife world. I offer you this thread from 2015 when I was learning to thin my first knife; @JBroida was amazing for helping me through the process for what was then probably a $175 product. I’ve since bought several more knives from him and they earned and never lost my loyalty. I’ve certainly bought knives from others but I always shop here first

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/thinning-a-gesshin-uraku-the-process.22599/

 

[OyakoDont]

To be clear, I'm not a one shop buyer. I was, however, a working chef in the bay area when they first opened, so I fell into the habit of buying stuff there even when I moved to the Sacramento area. The attraction (before discovering kkf) was indeed that I liked to feel the knife in my hand before purchasing it.

I'm happy that they are getting out there and I hope Josh and the crew get more business from the good press, but it doesn't have much to do with why I give them the first shot.

The problem is, now I have kkf to expose me to makers who sell direct. Which is what I find myself saving my money for now. Though I still check out BC's website when I'm bored at work.

Edit: I liked their variety of Japanese knives. When I first started going there I had just discovered the wonders (relative to my German steel) of Japanese edge geometry.

Thanks for the perspective and recalling how you felt when you were a working chef in the area at the time of their opening. KKF definitely opens up a new rabbit hole for buyers because of the direct line to makers.

 

[OyakoDont]

When allowed to buy directly from a maker, that is 100% the route I prefer. Otherwise, it comes down to price and availability. I have had nothing but great experiences with Carbon, Crocker, JKI, MC, and EatingTools. I see no reason to give one or two loyalty when they are all fabulous. Special shoutout to Jon at JKI though. He is always super helpful and conversational on Instagram. If I lived in LA, I'd stop by regularly. Crocker has been great as well. Express shipping, and they held a package for me over the holidays.

Right, with all of the great owners and even workers, it is so difficult to choose who you want to give your money to if prices are equal. I’m wondering where we are relative to the point of retail shop saturation. If we mostly buy for unique releases at the best price, then I feel like shops are subject to waves of income, making them susceptible to downturns. Selfishly, I don’t want to see the shops I like go away.

 

[nickkon1]

So far, I have only two knifes and both from Cleancut. For the same makers or lines of knives, they seem to be significantly cheapter then others in Europe. meesterslijpers seems to be decent as well with a wide range but noticeably more pricier. Other (especially German websites) seem to be >20% or more expensive then meesterslijpers.

E.g. my Mutsumi Hinoura Ajikataya Gyuto 240mm, Shiro #2:
Cleancut 242€, meesterslijpers 299€. International like Knifewear: 355€ + 30% for Taxes .
I found the 210mm version for 450€ () on a german side, but with a fancy handle.But that handle is no wear near worth 150-200€

 

[Jovidah]

Cleancut and meesterslijpers tend to be the cheapest EU options. Usually they don't necessarily differ much, if there's difference in pricing it's often because one of them bought their batch at an earlier date at a lower price.
What bugs me about CC though is that for some reason their EU site defaults to US pricing (without VAT) for me, which always creates this deceptively fake low price until you adjust the country setting.

 

[nickkon1]

I did had the same confusion on my 2nd order once but after some testing, I figured out that it was due to the shipping cost being added later and my 1st order was above the shipping cost limit. I just checked and can confirm that this happens if I set it to 'All other countries' / EU vs. Germany. But so far, the two sellers seem to be the only viable sellers for me in Europe without paying a hefty mark-up and I have stopped looking at other websites because of this.

 

[esoo]

As I ponder this, I've realized that I've bought my largest quantity from two stores
- Tosho as they are local and I can shop in-store.
- Homebutcher as Phil just runs stupid good deals that always make me impulse buy.

JNS is also up there due to the sales.
That said, I go where the knife/price is. The biggest problem I find is that some stores shipping is just to high for my liking. I'm not going to call out names, but I've seen some good deals that I would've bought only to be stopped when I got to the cart and shipping choices.

And having said that, I will generally pay whatever a knife maker charges when ordering direct. Not sure why the dissonance there.

 

[Jovidah]

It's a bit ironic, but since JNS charges neither VAT nor shipping on non EU orders (well, above the shipping minimum) he's actually cheaper to buy from when you're abroad.

Shipipng is also what kind of shot down a few things I would have bought from JNS; if you're below the minimum the EU shipping is not cheap.
Shipping cost is also what completely kills any US vendors, especially since customs is calculated on the cost of item + shipping.

 

[Messer Mojo]

Cleancut and meesterslijpers tend to be the cheapest EU options. Usually they don't necessarily differ much, if there's difference in pricing it's often because one of them bought their batch at an earlier date at a lower price.
What bugs me about CC though is that for some reason their EU site defaults to US pricing (without VAT) for me, which always creates this deceptively fake low price until you adjust the country setting.

I always hated that EU, and especially German prices, were way higher than in the U.S. and that we (Germans) had to buy in Japan, the Netherlands or Sweden. So, I decided to open my own shop.

My shop won't be as big as Meesterslijpers, but I'm going to have a good selection of high quality Japanese knives (within the next 2-3 years) at a decent price. (at least for the German market)

As for myself, I'm the majority. I look for a good price and my preferred makers/brands.